Discussion:
OT - Truth is stranger than fiction - How to Rig an Election [2]
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Michael O'Neill
2005-05-26 11:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Election Official Thwarts Recount Using Phony Vote Totals
December 14,2004 -Venice, FL.
by Daniel Hopsicker

URL: http://www.madcowprod.com/12142004.html

A “mistake” made in the office of a seriously-compromised Supervisor of
Election in Pinellas County whose husband is a top executive of the
country’s largest election services company has almost unnoticed spiked
the best hope for a election recount in Florida that might have thrown a
spotlight on the dark corners of the Florida election process concealing
widespread systemic and system-wide vote fraud.

The office of Supervisor of Elections in Pinellas County, Deborah Clark,
provided inflated totals on the YES side of the gambling initiative which
were then used by state officials in the official state tally of the
hotly-contested gambling initiative known as Amendment 4.

The initiative would allow casino slot machine gambling in South Florida,
an outcome devoutly to be wished by owners of the spanking new $700
million Hard Rock Café Casino in Hollywood, Florida, a facility all
dressed up but with currently nowhere to go.

Pinellas County voters defeated the gambling initiative by more than
17,000 votes. But the official state record says the exact opposite, the
result of a “mistake” by the office of Pinellas Elections Supervisor
which would have gone unnoticed, said local reports, had it not been
caught by outside observers.


Advantage Hard Rock

A recount of Florida’s votes on the state gambling initiative offered an
opportunity to correlate what was found with what are so far just
“theories” of how the Presidential election in Florida might have been
stolen.

Deborah Clark provided an extra 34,000 votes on the YES side of the
gambling initiative, sufficient to legally preclude what would have
otherwise been a mandated recount.

Ms. Clark’s performance had been questioned in press accounts before,
most recently after the 2002 primary contest, when newspaper headlines
read “Clark's election flubs draw fire.”

Strangely, no one can said to have benefited more from the inadvertent
mistake than Clark’s own husband. As a longtime top executive with E S &
S, the company which counts more than half the U.S. vote, Richard Clark
probably had more to lose from a recount than almost anyone alive…

Should rumored anomalies surface in the recount, the fortunes of any
elections firms involved would no doubt suffer.

“Computer Glitches” Beat John Kerry”

A recount of the gambling initiative, known as Amendment 4, election
experts said, would have offered clues as to how and why 90,000 extra YES
votes for gambling were recorded in Broward County, for example.

This number is almost equal to the “extra” votes for President Bush cast
in Broward County which researchers say were inexplicable except through
manipulated electronic vote tabulation—which were counted in the same
county’s tally.

Recording phony vote totals seemed a system wide and systemic problem,
and only AFTER being discovered by an outside observer were the wrong
totals corrected. For example, Vincent Profaci, an attorney near Orlando
went to bed with Kerry way ahead in his home county of Orange.

When he woke up he discovered to his horror that Kerry had fallen
inexplicably behind.

Officials excused the 34,000-vote mistake as a computer glitch.

In fact, almost every time vote fraud was discovered by election
observers, it was blandly explained away as nothing but a “computer or
software glitch.”

Newsflash: “COMPUTER GLITCHES” beat John Kerrey in Florida.

Let’s take a closer look at things like this can happen. Lets take a look
at what happened in Pinellas County.



"How To Fix An Election for Dummies"

Gov. Jeb Bush appointed Deborah Clark election supervisor in Pinellas
County, Florida, in May of 2000.

Trouble began almost immediately. Some of it was even funny…

For example, in the Aug. 31 2002 primary, the population of an entire
small town— 12,498 voters— appeared at the polls in Hillsborough County
and apparently decided not to vote in the race for state attorney.

The town cast votes in all the other contests, but not in the race for
state attorney. Had there been a town-wide secret pact?

To this day no one is sure why those voters didn't vote, or if they did,
what might have happened to their votes. They are “ghost votes,” floating
in the ether. The local papers labeled it “A Voting Mystery.”

More seriously, while Deborah Clark had worked as a top official in the
Pinellas Supervisor of Elections Office, her husband Richard Clark’s
employer Elections Systems & Software, was awarded more than $400,000 in
business with the office, and was up for a lucrative contract worth as
much as $15-million to sell new voting machines to Pinellas County.

Clark, who hadn’t disclosed the connection, hotly denied a conflict of
interest. “Neither my husband nor I would ever do anything that would
compromise the integrity of the elections office, or our own personal
integrity," she said.

Clark's failure to disclose that her husband was working for a voting
machine company bidding for Pinellas' business, coupled with the
last-minute revelation that the executive who would have managed
Pinellas' elections for Sequoia Voting Systems, the company the county
chose, was under indictment in Louisiana, left a bit of a sour taste.

Elections in Pinellas County have been occasions for holding your breath
for several election cycles.


"A reputation for corruption to be proud of."

So when, on the day of the 2004 Presidential election, numerous anecdotes
from voters in Pinellas County reported problems like voting for Kerry
and having the vote register for Bush, (see “pressing Bernacker and
getting Giambelluca” described in a previous story) it did not come as a
tremendous shock.

Roberta Harvey, 57, of Clearwater, Fla., said she had tried at least a
half dozen times to select Kerry-Edwards when she voted Tuesday at
Northwood Presbyterian Church, said an Associated Press report .

“After 10 minutes trying to change her selection, the Pinellas County
resident said she called a poll worker and got a wet-wipe napkin to clean
the touch screen as well as a pencil so she could use its eraser-end
instead of her finger. Harvey said it took about 10 attempts to select
Kerry before and a summary screen confirmed her intended selection,” said
the account.

“Election officials in several Florida counties where voters complained
about such problems did not return calls Tuesday night,” reported the
Associated Press on Nov. 4. And things haven’t changed since.

A spokeswoman for the company that makes the touch-screen machines used
in Pinellas, Palm Beach and two other Florida counties, Alfie Charles of
Sequoia Voting Systems, said the machines' monitors may need to be
recalibrated periodically.

Sequoia is the second-largest election services company, with roughly
one-third of the voting machine market. In 1999, the Justice Department
filed federal charges against Sequoia alleging that employees paid out
more than $ 8 million in bribes.

Pinellas County purchased voting equipment from Sequoia worth $14
million, even after discovering that Phil Foster, a Sequoia executive,
faced indictment in Louisiana for money laundering and corruption.

The Tampa Tribune stated “Pinellas County Supervisor of Elections Deborah
Clark's high praise of Sequoia Voting Systems was instrumental in the
company's landing a $14 million contract with the county in 2001.”



“We’re from the Government. We’re here to help.”

Fifteen Florida counties now use touch-screen machines, including Palm
Beach, Broward and Miami-Dade. They had scurried to buy the voting
machines after the Legislature outlawed punch-card balloting in the wake
of the hanging chad controversy of the 2000 presidential election.

In December 2001, Broward County chose a $17.2 million touch-screen
system over a pencil-and-paper system priced at no more than $5 million.
Earlier that year, in May, Palm Beach County agreed to pay $14 million
for touch-screens, compared with $3 million for the simpler system.

Why use electronic machines at all? Blame the Federal Government’s Help
America Vote Act, which authorized $3.9 billion in federal spending to
help states replace punch-card and lever voting machines.

With a war and a soaring deficit, why would they want to do that?

"I have always been concerned about the undervote on electronic
machines," said Rebecca Mercuri, a computer expert at Harvard University
who has written extensively about voting issues. "We don't know what
happens with the votes because there is no real audit of the machines."

Ah. There’s the rub.

Not surprisingly, Supervisor of Elections Deborah Clark wants to keep it
that way…

Although she hadn’t shown much concern over spending $14 million on the
machines, she said that the $2 million expense of retrofitting Pinellas
County's new touch screen voting machines to generate a receipt for
voters which would verify how their ballots were cast was unnecessary.

The county's touch screen system, built by Sequoia Voting Systems, was
safe from tampering, she stated.


"A Mechanic for Our Time"

Her assertions should be tempered by the knowledge that while Clark
worked as a top official in the Pinellas Supervisor of Elections Office,
her husband's employer was awarded more than $400,000 in business with
the office.

Her husband, Richard Clark, isn't involved in sales,” reported a
sympathetic article in the St. Petersburg Times. “He installs and fixes
elections machines and says he has steered clear of business in Florida.”

But it is exactly these people, the ones who install and fix election
machines, the so-called mechanics, who have the opportunity and expertise
to rig the vote. When an election gets fixed, its almost always because
mechanics got “to” the machines.

Yet the development, coming after Clark's controversial handling of the
presidential election in Pinellas, raised some eyebrows this week. Some
county commissioners say they weren't told about her husband's connection
to the company.

It wasn’t like bribing election officials was something that never
happened in Tampa…

Officers of Shoup Voting Machine Co., a Sequoia predecessor, were
indicted for allegedly bribing politicians in Tampa, Florida back in
1971, according to the San Francisco Business Times.

It’s a job with a little bit of history… Even Clark's deputy
administrator, Karen Butler, is a sister of Sandra Mortham, Florida's
former secretary of state and a lobbyist for ES&S before the state
Legislature.

Butler told reporters that family ties won't matter.

Clark's husband, Richard Clark, 59, is a nationally known expert in
installing new voting systems.


An Insider at the Feast

He worked as a project manager for ES&S for about five years, having
joined the firm when it acquired the company that previously employed
him, Business Records Corp.

But Clark said he quit ES&S just before his wife was named elections
supervisor because he was worried that his employment with the firm could
appear as a conflict. But so far, Clark's new company, Richard A. Clark
Enterprises, works for just one company: ES&S.

The selection process in Pinellas County became mired in ethical
conflicts after county commissioners learned in July 2001 that ES&S had
“very” close ties to Deborah Clark.

Clark had been working in Birmingham, Ala. as an independent contractor,
after resigning from the company "I have nothing whatsoever to do with
that decision in Pinellas County. We don't talk about anything like
that," Clark told the St Pete Times. "We've been married 17 years. I love
her too much to put her in any position like that.”

The paper also quoted a sales executive from Sequoia Pacific, John
Krizka, who said he did not think ES&S got any unfair advantage in
Pinellas County.

Coming from a salesman for a competitor, this seems convincing, except
that the two companies have a documented and tangled history of collusion
between the two supposedly competing firms.

Then too, consider that Sequoia had paid $441,000 in a single year to
Krizka, just for selling voting machines to four Florida counties.
Although this might be viewed as a bit excessive, it wasn’t enough for
Krizka, who sued, claiming Sequoia had stiffed him on another $1.8
million.

And here’s where our story begins to come full circle…


Birmingham, City of 'Mechanics'

Apparently no one noticed that when Richard Clark went to Birmingham,
another Birmingham election exec, Phil Foster, was being indicted on
felony bribery charges.

Phil Foster, a regional sales vice president, was allegedly involved in a
conspiracy and money-laundering scheme that involved the sale of machine
parts at inflated prices and kickbacks of nearly $600,000.

Pinellas commissioners were surprised when the St. Pete Times reported
that Foster, a key employee for front-runner Sequoia Voting Systems, had
been indicted for the elections kickback scheme in Louisiana.

“Sequoia was not involved, nor was the company charged,” said the St Pete
Times.

This isn’t strictly true. In fact, it isn’t true at all…

Testimony in Federal Court in Baton Rouge revealed that, in fact, Sequoia
had engineered the complex scheme, an action which provides yet another
election irony.

Pinellas Commission Chairman Calvin Harris told the Times he assumed the
state had checked out the competing companies while their machines were
being certified.

Not so, said Clay Roberts, director of the state's Division of Elections,
who maintained that background checks were a job for counties.

So while the state of Florida was death on voting by convicted felons,
there were no safeguards in place to prevent the votes from being counted
by felons.


Invisible Hand Wearing a Velvet Glove

The last time a big gambling initiative was on the ballot in a Southern
state, the election, in Louisiana, produced visible evidence of
state-wide vote fraud.

Gambling was the burning issue on the ballot. Allegations of voting
irregularity became commonplace.

We saw the invisible hand of one of the second largest elections services
company, Sequoia Pacific, in action. Commissioner of Elections and former
pro football player Jerry Fowler got himself in big gambling trouble at
Harrah's and paid off like a jimmied slot machine for over a decade.

When big money’s at stake, we learned, people looking to fix elections
take off the velvet gloves.

So we paid close attention to Amendment 4, the gambling initiative on the
Florida ballot. And what we found revealed that Pinellas County isn’t an
isolated case..

Sequoia Voting Systems also sold neighboring Hillsborough its $12-million
package of touch screen voting machines, had “a computer indexing system
malfunction” in the Aug. 31 primary.

That’s a serious computer glitch, apparently.

Sequoia had never experienced this particular glitch., which was a doozy.
A total of 118,699 people turned out to vote countywide. But somehow
125,891 voted in the race for state attorney.

That's 7,192 more votes than voters.


"All Roads Lead to Vegas"

For why this happens there’s no better example than… where else? Las
Vegas…

Back in 1993-94, many observers wondered why new Clark County elections
chief Kathryn Ferguson would commit to what turned out to be tens of
millions of dollars in expenditures to adopt Sequoia Pacific’s electronic
voting machines.

So determined was Ms. Ferguson to buy the Sequoia machines for Las Vegas
that a former member of her elections department team stated Ferguson
resorted to the simple exigency of having Sequoia Pacific’s
representative send a list of bid specifications designed so that
Sequoia's machines were the only ones that could meet them.

This hardly seems sporting. And its definitely illegal. Asked at the
time, Ferguson said she had no concern that her acceptance of a job at
Sequoia Pacific might appear to be a payoff for favors rendered.

Today Kathryn Ferguson is E S & S’s chief spokesman. She’s good to go.

So the real question isn’t “Did vote fraud affect the Presidential race?”

The real question is, “How could it not?”

Although many profess amazed and seem confused about why Democrats have
been such weenies about vote fraud, this is a bipartisan scandal. And
both parties know it.

When several dozen voters in six states - particularly Democrats in
Florida - said the wrong candidates appeared on their touch-screen
machine's checkout screen, the “Election Protection Coalition” called the
problem "troubling but anecdotal."

Why are they excusing felony fraud?

State Election Commissioner Jerry Fowler, sentenced to five years in
prison for taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in kickbacks from
voting machine contractors, could tell you…

Revelations of his bribe-taking might never have emerged except for
complaints from, of all things, a Republican candidate, Woody Jenkins,
narrowly beaten by Democratic Senate candidate Mary Landrieu, in an
especially bad-tempered campaign.

A year-long investigation into the voting process ensued, which uncovered
certain financial irregularities.

Today Woody Jenkins is out of politics.

The system rolls on…

=============================

OB Tolkien: The West ain't what it used to be...

What odds for Jeb Bush as the next President?

After all, he's shown he's willing to get his hands very dirty.

M.
Michael O'Neill
2005-05-26 11:46:55 UTC
Permalink
http://www.madcowprod.com/12092004.html

December 8,2004 -Venice, FL.
by Daniel Hopsicker

A retired CIA agent, whose illegal and unfettered access to election
rolls in Martin County Florida was a major source of legal contention
after the 2000 Election, traveled to the Ukraine four years earlier to
teach “grass-roots politics” to people there, The MadCowMorningNews has
learned.

The news came even as citizens in the Ukraine celebrate their new-found
freedom, while in the U.S. suspicion continued to fester that vote fraud
may have cost Americans their own right to free and honest elections.

In a bitterly ironic twist, Charles Kane, former Director of Security at
the Central Intelligence Agency, and member of the Florida Republican
Executive Committee, spent four days in Kiev, the capital of the former
Soviet republic, hosting training sessions for Ukrainian political
parties in 1996.

Institute officials chose Kane to go to the Ukraine, according to the
February 20, 1996, Stuart/Port St. Lucie News, apparently straight-faced,
“because of his experience in grass-roots campaigns.”

Four years later, Kane’s credentials as a proponent of democracy were
receiving much closer scrutiny...

“Kane's efforts were part of a sinister underground conspiracy to help
Bush,” Edward Stafman, attorney for the Martin County challengers told
the Associated Press on December 7, 2000.


Your Tax Dollars at Work

Like the virtually-unpublicized fact that 9.11 ringleader Mohamed Atta’s
sojourn in Hamburg was paid for by U.S. taxpayers (through the joint
US-German Congress-Bundestag Program), Charles Kane’s Ukrainian trip was
sponsored by the U.S. Government, this time through the International
Republican Institute, which reports have accused of being responsible
during the current election for “many millions of U.S. taxpayer dollars
funneled” in support of the U.S.’s preferred candidate.

The career of the much-traveled Kane, it must be stated, resembles
nothing so much as a conspiracy theorist’s wet dream... He was also
involved, years earlier, in the investigation into the JFK assassination,
dispatching a memo to the FBI regarding the whereabouts on the day of the
assassination of notorious pipe-smoking Watergate burglar E. Howard Hunt.

The Seeds of Destruction

Kane’s strange—and in the case of the 2000 U.S. election
crucial—involvement in two separate elections half a world apart came to
light during an investigation into election “anomalies” which might
explain why the company which predicted the 2000 outcome more accurately
than any national pollster, Zogby International, could have been so wrong
in 2004 in predicting a 100 electoral-vote triumph for Kerry.

Memories of the Martin County, Florida debacle, over Republican officials
allowed illegal access to election rolls in 2000, came to mind after
reading Wayne Madsen’s controversial recent reporting of a mysterious $29
million slush fund allegedly behind a conspiracy to steal the 2004
Presidential election by retired CIA and FBI agents.

Charles Kane had been both.

More importantly, he had been shown to have had been given unfettered
access to election data, which is at the heart of Madsen’s contention
that the election was stolen.

So while most eyes were rightly focused on the increasingly suspect vote
count in Ohio, we turned our attention to a place described by an early
Spanish explorer as being “filled with bogs and poisonous fruits, barren,
and the very worst country that is warmed by the sun.”

Like a hurricane slicing through a trailer park, Florida cut a swath of
destruction through Democratic hopes in each of the past two Presidential
elections.

We wanted to know if that outcome had been, somehow, “seeded” or
“engineered.”



The Ghost of Scandals Past

Charlie Kane’s presence in both the Ukraine and the 2000 election debacle
prompted us to take a quick backward glance at the controversy which
became familiar during the weeks following the infamous Florida Vote
Snafu of 2000.

Two heavily Republican counties in Florida had allowed party officials
access which they said was to fix hundreds of flawed absentee ballot
applications that had been submitted by voters but rejected by the
elections office.

The Martin County supervisor of elections, a Republican, let Republican
Party workers take away the ballot requests on a daily basis, add missing
voter identification numbers and resubmit them, a deputy elections
supervisor said.

Just days before the Nov. 7 election, Charles Kane and his buddy Thomas
Hauck were laboring in front of a computer at the local Republican
headquarters in Stuart, supposedly as part of their party's sophisticated
but botched statewide effort to get out the absentee vote.

A printing company had failed to put the required voter identification
numbers on thousands of absentee ballot request forms that were mailed to
voters. So Hauck and Kane got busy in Martin County, aided by a
Republican supervisor of elections who let them remove forms from her
office.

Kane, who chaired the 2000 Bush-Cheney campaign in Martin County,
supposedly read the numbers from the party's database. Hauck, the local
GOP treasurer and a 20-year veteran of local campaigns, supposedly filled
in the blanks on the request forms.

But the printing company’s forms were used state-wide. Had this perhaps
"convenient" fact been used as an excuse to allow illegal access in other
places in Florida as well?

The question was never answered.



Once Again, in Tallahassee

Moreover, while Gov. George W. Bush edged Vice President Al Gore by 56
percent to 44 percent in Martin County, the absentee votes—control of
which violated the rules of chain of custody—broke nearly 2 to 1 for
Bush. This strange disparity had an echo in the 2004 election in
Florida, which we will soon take up.

Other tantalizing clues have emerged, like the recent statements made by
Jeff Fisher, Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives
from Florida's 16th District, which, curiously, encompasses both Martin
as well as Palm Beach County, where the vote count has been disputed in
an analysis by UC Berkeley researchers.

Fisher has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was
hacked, but of who hacked it and how.

Perhaps the proof of vote tampering, if proof is ever found, will be
found by piercing through the implausible explanation offered for
Charlie Kane’s illegal access to election records, and then collating it
with whatever the truth turns out to be about the 'goings-on' in
Tallahassee, home of the heart of Florida’s election machine, the central
tabulating computer, on the day before the 2004 election.

Authorities there evacuated the headquarters of state election officials
over a suspicious ticking package which turned out to be just “papers
flapping in an air vent.”


An Echo (Not a Choice) in Ohio

Similarly, citing concerns about potential terrorism, Warren County Ohio
officials locked down the county administration building on election
night and blocked anyone from observing the vote count as the nation
awaited Ohio's returns.

This is odd. If you wanted to rig an election, the easiest path would
seem to involve the fewest people.

Creating some "crisis" which takes people away from the crime scene would
be key.

Only two states would need to be controlled illegally: Ohio and Florida.
Curiously, in both there occurred still-unexplained events which may have
impacted the result of the election.

In Ohio there was the famous "Warren County Lockdown" because of "terror"
threats, and in Florida, a "bomb threat" at the State Elections Office in
Tallahassee

The State Elections Office in Tallahassee holds, of course, that state’s
main tabulating computers.

Numerous election experts have testified to the ease with which
unsupervised access to the main tabulating computers before the actual
election could be used to “hack the vote.” In an environment with no
meaningful oversight and no paper trail, vote tampering, they state, can
occur virtually undetected.

One expert on the technical aspects of electronic voting stated a typical
concern...“There are virtually no limits to the way votes can be
distributed... Programmers can write code that is self-erasing and
redistributes votes to conform to whatever outside interests are
operative, and without any kind of traceability."

And a Johns Hopkins University study researchers noted: "Software flaws
in a leading US electronic voting system could be used to subvert the
outcome of an election."


A mysterious rattle

With this in mind compare two typical quotes from mainstream stories:

“The Republican-dominated (Warren Ohio) County threw out all the media
and independent vote watchers when votes were being counted at the end of
Election Day, claiming ‘homeland security’ issues.”

“State elections workers got off to a slow start this morning after
Tallahassee police evacuated their building. Investigators called in the
bomb squad after finding a suspicious package.”

The events seem strangely similar. Moreover, the explanation given in
Florida lacks a certain je ne sais quoi, we discovered, after reading all
the news clips…

“As if Florida's election system weren't already stretched enough,
employees in Florida's main elections office in Tallahassee arrived at
work Monday morning to find their building surrounded by police and a
bomb squad truck parked out front. A security guard had reported a
suspicious package that appeared to vibrate in a storage room for the
state's archives, which share the… building.

“The package was discovered in an area that stores quilts and other
artwork that is part of the department's historic archive.”

The package turned out to be a bundle of documents, supposedly being
blown by an air vent.

The mysterious rattling noise was caused by an air vent that was blocked
by the box of papers?

Had the box changed position on the morning before the election? Had the
air vent?

“Calling out the troops” to protect Florida’s collection of quilts seems
a dubious excuse… made far more suspicious by the unfortunate box’s
proximity to the state’s central tabulating computer on the eve of the
election.

They must be some really important quilts.
Flame of the West
2005-05-28 21:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael O'Neill
http://www.madcowprod.com/12092004.html
December 8,2004 -Venice, FL.
by Daniel Hopsicker
<snip>

OK, so Bush and his cronies stole two elections.
Therefore the American people are not responsible
for anything the Bush adminstration has done.
After all, we voted for Gore and Kerry. Right?


-- FotW

[NOT crossposted to RABT]
Prai Jei
2005-05-29 09:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Flame of the West (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in
Post by Flame of the West
OK, so Bush and his cronies stole two elections.
Therefore the American people are not responsible
for anything the Bush adminstration has done.
After all, we voted for Gore and Kerry. Right?
Here in the UK we didn't vote for any of these characters. Can we keep
particular nations' internal politics out of this international group
please?
--
A couple of questions. How do I stop the wires short-circuiting, and what's
this nylon washer for?

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Flame of the West
2005-05-29 11:14:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Prai Jei
Post by Flame of the West
OK, so Bush and his cronies stole two elections.
Therefore the American people are not responsible
for anything the Bush adminstration has done.
After all, we voted for Gore and Kerry. Right?
Here in the UK we didn't vote for any of these characters. Can we keep
particular nations' internal politics out of this international group
please?
Sure, but why reply to me? Go have a talk
with your Euro-neighbor O'Neill.


-- FotW

"The deeds of Men will outlast us, Gimli."

-- Legolas, immortal Elf
Dan Leach
2005-05-26 13:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Noboday cares
Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
Michael O'Neill
2005-05-26 16:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Leach
Noboday cares
Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
Ahh, the human leech again.

What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?

<scans>

Not a lot then.

Plus ça change.

M.
Dan Leach
2005-05-26 17:23:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
Noboday cares
Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
Ahh, the human leech again.
What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
<scans>
Not a lot then.
Plus ça change.
Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
Michael O'Neill
2005-05-27 10:27:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Leach
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
Noboday cares
Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
Ahh, the human leech again.
What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
<scans>
Not a lot then.
Plus ça change.
Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
For someone apparently posting from a TLI you don't exhibit the benefits
implied by such an education. You must be studying engineering or
something. Back to your feeding trough then.

M.
Michael O'Neill
2005-05-27 10:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Leach
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
Noboday cares
Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
Ahh, the human leech again.
What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
<scans>
Not a lot then.
Plus ça change.
Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
<checks headers again>

Um. That was interesting.


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Database last updated on 27-May-2005 06:32:21 EDT.

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NS0-P.DNS.PIPEX.NET 158.43.129.80
NS1-P.DNS.PIPEX.NET 158.43.193.80
Michael O'Neill
2005-05-27 10:33:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Leach
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
Noboday cares
Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
Ahh, the human leech again.
What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
<scans>
Not a lot then.
Plus ça change.
Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
Dan Leach

Profile for danleach



Email
***@dsl.pipex.com

Member #
21020
Name
Dan Leach
Title
Fleet Captain
Total Posts
1910
Birthday
12/20
Homepage

Occupation
computer tech
Hobbies
sim racing, sci-fi, astronomy
Location
Lancaster UK
Bio
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should
like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you
deserve."
J. R. R. Tolkien
ICQ Number

Registered on
03/05/27 12:22 PM
Michael O'Neill
2005-05-27 10:37:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Leach
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
Noboday cares
Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
Ahh, the human leech again.
What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
<scans>
Not a lot then.
Plus ça change.
Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
"Dan_Leach
22-06-2004, 02:16 AM
Thats why MS is so fast. He controls the car like a gpl alien,
accellerate
while braking and turning to rotate the car."

I can see you're a fascinating individual with a depth of knowledge about
Tolkien, Star Trek and <gurgle> Sim Car Racing that fair takes the breath
away.

M.
Michael O'Neill
2005-05-27 10:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Leach
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
Noboday cares
Take this OT crap and post it somewhere else
Ahh, the human leech again.
What have you wittered on about this month, Danny Boi?
<scans>
Not a lot then.
Plus ça change.
Oh fer christs sake is that the best you can do?
I suggest you open an account here http://www.trollkingdom.com
Its jam packed full of retards such as yourself
Of course, this Danny wouldn't be you, would it?

===============================

Atomic_Danny Bio

This Page has been viewed 168 times since March 2004!
Username - Atomic_Danny
ame: Daniel Leach
Age: 20 (xx/xx/xxxx)
Lives: [censored]
Jobs: BC Files Filer, Work at a Local Store, and a Business with
Computing degree at Canterbury Christ Church University College.

Website: http://www.alienworlds.co.uk

Interests: Star Trek, Trek games, Football (or soccer to the US )

Hates: Assignments, Most Customers at the local supermarket where i work!

Favorite Star Trek ships: Centaur, Prometheus, Excelsior
Favorite Star Trek episode: Sacrifice of Angels (DS9) / 'Q Less' (DS9)
Favorite TV shows besides trek: Stargate SG1, Stargate Atlantis, Red
Dwarf, Battlestar Galactica (ALL), Farscape, Babylon 5, Andromeda.

============================

Nawwwwww, course not.

<smirk>


M.
Dan Leach
2005-05-28 12:55:46 UTC
Permalink
HAHAHHA you idiot :)
I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to come by
material
You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever or
difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im open, i
never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use proxy or
proxy mail.
Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather untalented
script kiddie or something?
I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
:rolleyes:
Michael O'Neill
2005-05-30 09:55:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Leach
HAHAHHA you idiot :)
I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to come by
material
You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever or
difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im open, i
never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use proxy or
proxy mail.
Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather untalented
script kiddie or something?
I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
<chuckle>

Whereas replying to my <splutter> "1/2 right" post is...?

<guffaw>

M.
Baronjosefr
2005-05-31 00:09:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
HAHAHHA you idiot :)
I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to come by
material
You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever or
difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im open, i
never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use proxy or
proxy mail.
Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather untalented
script kiddie or something?
I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
<chuckle>
Whereas replying to my <splutter> "1/2 right" post is...?
<guffaw>
M.
Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which, your
boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Michael O'Neill
2005-05-31 09:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Leach
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
HAHAHHA you idiot :)
I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to
come by
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
material
You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever or
difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im
open, i
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use proxy
or
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
proxy mail.
Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather
untalented
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
script kiddie or something?
I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
<chuckle>
Whereas replying to my <splutter> "1/2 right" post is...?
<guffaw>
M.
Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which, your
boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't recall bragging about it.

You mean the one you are so obviously WORRIED about?

*mheh*

M.
Baronjosefr
2005-06-01 22:47:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
HAHAHHA you idiot :)
I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to
come by
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
material
You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever or
difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im
open, i
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use proxy
or
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
proxy mail.
Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather
untalented
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
script kiddie or something?
I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
<chuckle>
Whereas replying to my <splutter> "1/2 right" post is...?
<guffaw>
M.
Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which, your
boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't recall bragging about it.
You mean the one you are so obviously WORRIED about?
*mheh*
M.
Why worry when they can't even agree on what they should be?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....and Chirac even screwed up his choice for Prime Minister.
Makes my heart warm
Michael O'Neill
2005-06-02 23:40:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
HAHAHHA you idiot :)
I cant believe you think your in any way clever posting that easy to
come by
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
material
You really are a sad pointless little man. Do you think its clever
or
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
difficult to come up with that(btw you only got 1/2 of it right) Im
open, i
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
never hide muy name i never ry to cover my tracks and i never use
proxy
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
or
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
proxy mail.
Do you get some wierd perverse pleasure out of being a rather
untalented
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
script kiddie or something?
I suggest you grow up, your not as 'cool' as you think you are.
<chuckle>
Whereas replying to my <splutter> "1/2 right" post is...?
<guffaw>
M.
Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which,
your
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Dan Leach
boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't recall bragging about it.
You mean the one you are so obviously WORRIED about?
*mheh*
M.
Why worry when they can't even agree on what they should be?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....and Chirac even screwed up his choice for Prime Minister.
Makes my heart warm
Having finally tumbled to the fact that the CIA's drugs people had
infiltrated the easily led far right and far left [where else, the
moderates - don't make me laugh] Chirac gave America the finger in the
only way left to him - appointing the foreign minister America loved to
hate.

But there's an heir apparent waiting in the wings, and Edinburgh's just
around the corner, with the prelim in Sheffield IIRC. So we'll see.

Anyway, we've got on without a constitution before now, and yours is
completely subverted in everything from democratic elections to civil
rights to education to healthcare to - well, you know...

<chuckle>

Where, oh *where*, are all those bleaters who said the Euro would
collapse against the Dollar shortly after its launch?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!11!1!11

M.
Flame of the West
2005-06-03 01:50:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael O'Neill
Anyway, we've got on without a constitution before now, and yours is
completely subverted in everything from democratic elections to civil
rights to education to healthcare to - well, you know...
Actually our Constitution doesn't mention any of those things.
Most of the subversions of our Constitution come from reading
things into it that aren't there, by those on the Left.


-- FotW

"I love England (not Great Britain and certainly
not the British Commonwealth (grr!))."

-- JRR Tolkien
Flame of the West
2005-06-03 01:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Baronjosefr
Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which, your
boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't recall bragging about it.
You mean the one you are so obviously WORRIED about?
*mheh*
I doubt he's worried so much as gleeful because he dislikes Chirac.
Most Americans (apart from neoconservative unilateralists) wish
Europe well and welcome the development of a stable and prosperous
community there. The level of integration needed for that is
completely up to Europeans. I know *I* wouldn't want that level
of integration into an international superstate, but it's pretty
obvious that we Americans think differently from you on a lot of
things. I admit the democrat in me doesn't relish watching
integration being imposed on so many countries by political elites
without popular votes. But the most important thing to me is that
Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
since we inevitably get sucked into them.


-- FotW

"I love England (not Great Britain and certainly
not the British Commonwealth (grr!))."

-- JRR Tolkien
Baronjosefr
2005-06-03 02:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Baronjosefr
Put your foil beanie away. Kerry lost. Live with it. Speaking of which, your
boy Chirac just suffered a humiliating defeat as well. So much for that
unified Europe you have been bragging about, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't recall bragging about it.
You mean the one you are so obviously WORRIED about?
*mheh*
I doubt he's worried so much as gleeful because he dislikes Chirac.
Most Americans (apart from neoconservative unilateralists) wish
Europe well and welcome the development of a stable and prosperous
community there. The level of integration needed for that is
completely up to Europeans. I know *I* wouldn't want that level
of integration into an international superstate, but it's pretty
obvious that we Americans think differently from you on a lot of
things. I admit the democrat in me doesn't relish watching
integration being imposed on so many countries by political elites
without popular votes. But the most important thing to me is that
Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
since we inevitably get sucked into them.
-- FotW
"I love England (not Great Britain and certainly
not the British Commonwealth (grr!))."
-- JRR Tolkien
Actually, if you are a fan of democracy, the votes of the French and the
Dutch should be welcomed. As you said, almost all of the integration was
done without popular support, so it is good to see democracy back in action
for the EU.

And yes, I am gleeful that Chirac wagered so much of his clout on the vote,
as he is a spineless weasel who allowed his government to be owned by Sodamn
Insane. Then he screwed up his selection of a new Prime Minister. What a
maroon.
Henriette
2005-06-03 07:33:59 UTC
Permalink
(snip)But the most important thing to me is that
Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
since we inevitably get sucked into them.
It is not forgotten that the USA were part of the Allied Forces which
liberated part of Europe from the Nazi's.

Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
USA, against the wish of the UN.

Henriette
Flame of the West
2005-06-03 23:00:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
It is not forgotten that the USA were part of the Allied Forces which
liberated part of Europe from the Nazi's.
Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
USA, against the wish of the UN.
But a war or two before that was in the Balkans, which for
some reason the Europeans couldn't handle. I'm hoping
that further development of the EU prevents even a small
conflict like that from happening again in Europe.


-- FotW

"I love England (not Great Britain and certainly
not the British Commonwealth (grr!))."

-- JRR Tolkien
Yuk Tang
2005-06-04 00:57:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
Post by Henriette
It is not forgotten that the USA were part of the Allied Forces
which liberated part of Europe from the Nazi's.
Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by
the USA, against the wish of the UN.
But a war or two before that was in the Balkans, which for
some reason the Europeans couldn't handle. I'm hoping
that further development of the EU prevents even a small
conflict like that from happening again in Europe.
The current strategy is to entice them with eventual membership of
the EU, but only if they behave and reform themselves in our liberal
democratic image. The former Yugoslav states seem to be responding
to this.

As I said a while ago, in the application of the carrot and the stick
the stick needn't necessarily be a sword, sheathed or otherwise. The
taste of the carrot and the threat to withdraw it can sometimes be
even more effective.
--
Cheers, ymt.
Flame of the West
2005-06-05 14:45:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yuk Tang
The current strategy is to entice them with eventual membership of
the EU, but only if they behave and reform themselves in our liberal
democratic image. The former Yugoslav states seem to be responding
to this.
As I said a while ago, in the application of the carrot and the stick
the stick needn't necessarily be a sword, sheathed or otherwise. The
taste of the carrot and the threat to withdraw it can sometimes be
even more effective.
That only works *after* the military aggression has been stopped.
And if the underlying conflicts have not been resolved, it can
backfire: the EU is now siding with the Greek Cypriots, who
rejected the proposed peace plan, against the Turkish Cypriots,
who accepted it. IMHO they should not have offered membership
to any part of Cyprus until after they came to a settlement.


-- FotW

"If you must read newspapers and magazines at least
give yourself a mouthwash with The Lord of the Rings."

-- C.S. Lewis
Yuk Tang
2005-06-06 08:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
Post by Yuk Tang
The current strategy is to entice them with eventual membership
of the EU, but only if they behave and reform themselves in our
liberal democratic image. The former Yugoslav states seem to be
responding to this.
As I said a while ago, in the application of the carrot and the
stick the stick needn't necessarily be a sword, sheathed or
otherwise. The taste of the carrot and the threat to withdraw it
can sometimes be even more effective.
That only works *after* the military aggression has been stopped.
Or preempting it, as in Macedonia.
Post by Flame of the West
And if the underlying conflicts have not been resolved, it can
backfire: the EU is now siding with the Greek Cypriots, who
rejected the proposed peace plan, against the Turkish Cypriots,
who accepted it. IMHO they should not have offered membership
to any part of Cyprus until after they came to a settlement.
That I agree with. The EU is no place for border disputes; only
after people have accepted the validity of existing borders can they
be effectively dissolved.
--
Cheers, ymt.
TT Arvind
2005-06-06 09:13:56 UTC
Permalink
Wes ðu Yuk Tang hal!
Post by Yuk Tang
Post by Flame of the West
And if the underlying conflicts have not been resolved, it can
backfire: the EU is now siding with the Greek Cypriots, who
rejected the proposed peace plan, against the Turkish Cypriots,
who accepted it. IMHO they should not have offered membership
to any part of Cyprus until after they came to a settlement.
That I agree with. The EU is no place for border disputes; only
after people have accepted the validity of existing borders can they
be effectively dissolved.
In all fairness, at the time when Cyprus' accession was agreed (in the
late 90s) everyone thought it was the Turks who were being
obstructionist. It seemed extremely unfair to keep the Greek Cypriots
out because of something they had absolutely no control over, and it was
thought that EU membership would pressurise the Turkish Cypriots into
accepting a settlement. No-one really expected a situation where it
would be the Greek Cypriots who voted no. By the time it became clear
that that was what would happen, the treaties of accession had already
been signed and there was nothing that could be done about it.
--
Arvind
Henriette
2005-06-06 19:08:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
Post by Yuk Tang
As I said a while ago, in the application of the carrot and the stick
the stick needn't necessarily be a sword, sheathed or otherwise. The
taste of the carrot and the threat to withdraw it can sometimes be
even more effective.
That only works *after* the military aggression has been stopped.
And if the underlying conflicts have not been resolved, it can
backfire (snip)
It'll be interesting to see how some conflicts will work out in the
light of the taste of the carrot and the threat to withdraw it, as some
conflicts are *centuries* old (Balkan).
Baronjosefr
2005-06-07 13:11:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
(snip)But the most important thing to me is that
Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
since we inevitably get sucked into them.
It is not forgotten that the USA were part of the Allied Forces which
liberated part of Europe from the Nazi's.
Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
USA, against the wish of the UN.
Henriette
And against the wishes of Sodamn Insane, who owned France and Russia's U.N.
vote....don't forget that, please.
Morgil
2005-06-07 22:04:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Henriette
Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
USA, against the wish of the UN.
Henriette
And against the wishes of Sodamn Insane, who owned France and Russia's U.N.
vote....don't forget that, please.
Against the wish of the UN, and vast majority of world's nations
and people, but according to the wishes of Saudi-Arabia and Iran,
who owned the US government and the Iraqi exiles who provided the
"information" about the hidden WMDs, remember that.

Morgil
Baronjosefr
2005-06-08 12:07:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morgil
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Henriette
Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
USA, against the wish of the UN.
Henriette
And against the wishes of Sodamn Insane, who owned France and Russia's U.N.
vote....don't forget that, please.
Against the wish of the UN, and vast majority of world's nations
and people, but according to the wishes of Saudi-Arabia and Iran,
who owned the US government and the Iraqi exiles who provided the
"information" about the hidden WMDs, remember that.
Morgil
Information that was also provided by the Intelligence services of Britain,
France, Italy, etc. etc. etc.

You'd forget your dick if it wasn't in your hand all the time
Morgil
2005-06-08 13:08:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Morgil
Against the wish of the UN, and vast majority of world's nations
and people, but according to the wishes of Saudi-Arabia and Iran,
who owned the US government and the Iraqi exiles who provided the
"information" about the hidden WMDs, remember that.
Morgil
Information that was also provided by the Intelligence services of Britain,
France, Italy, etc. etc. etc.
Who got the information from those same sources - only with the
difference that *they* recogniced that the sources were highly
unreliable and tried to tell that to US intelligence who ignored
all such warnings. Google "curveball" for details.
Post by Baronjosefr
You'd forget your dick if it wasn't in your hand all the time
Don't be so hard on yourself. That's our job.

Morgil
Morgil
2005-06-08 13:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morgil
Post by Baronjosefr
Information that was also provided by the Intelligence services of Britain,
France, Italy, etc. etc. etc.
Who got the information from those same sources - only with the
difference that *they* recogniced that the sources were highly
unreliable...
Oops, exept Britain and Italy of course, who being part of the
"coalition of willing" allowed themselves to be duped as well...

Morgil
Sam's the little guy
2005-06-08 13:20:16 UTC
Permalink
I see you've surfaced again little ratBaron. I can only assume this
means you've found the quote you went off to find.
That IS why you went away, isn't it? To find the quote that you
repeatedly claimed to have in your posession, of me making remarks in
support of Mohammads sexual practices?

We had just begun a conversation about the matter, and you disappeared
inexplicably. Odd.

Oh, and what happened to your little sidekick Ty? Like you, he
disappeared in the midst of a conversation as well: disappointing in a
way, I was just getting interested.
Post by Baronjosefr
Information that was also provided by the Intelligence services of Britain,
France, Italy, etc. etc. etc.
As per usual, the facts contradict your bizzare fantasies.

French Intelligence Service analysis of WMD claims contradicts
publicised CIA "assessment":
http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/usallieswmd.html

Architect of the war Paul Wolfowitz, proclaims publically in a
interview with Vanity Fair that the supposed WMD were not the real
reason he wanted war on Saddams Iraq - meanwhile, Jack Straw and Colin
Powell, whilst publically confident are privately doubtful about the
strength of the WMD claims - prior to the invasion:
http://www.countercurrents.org/us-mackay020603.htm
Baronjosefr
2005-06-09 03:22:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam's the little guy
I see you've surfaced again little ratBaron. I can only assume this
means you've found the quote you went off to find.
That IS why you went away, isn't it? To find the quote that you
repeatedly claimed to have in your posession, of me making remarks in
support of Mohammads sexual practices?
You have been bitch-slapped so many times that it is a wonder you can show
your face without being completely embarrassed. But then again, that is your
modis operandi: take positions then wait long enough for people to forget
about them, then deny them. Go back to giving Morgil that reach-around. He
is getting lonelu
Post by Sam's the little guy
We had just begun a conversation about the matter, and you disappeared
inexplicably. Odd.
yeah, it's that itme again, forget that you have been proiven wrong on so
many issues, and ask for the quotes all over again, for the umpteentht time.
Eventually, you realize, people get sick of shoing you to be the
terorist-loving cocksucker that you are. Isn't it about time for your dream
vaation? Gooing over to the Palestinian territories, digging up Arafat, and
having sex with his corpse?
Post by Sam's the little guy
Oh, and what happened to your little sidekick Ty? Like you, he
disappeared in the midst of a conversation as well: disappointing in a
way, I was just getting interested.
He, like I, must be fed up with bitch-slapping you over and over again
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
Information that was also provided by the Intelligence services of Britain,
France, Italy, etc. etc. etc.
As per usual, the facts contradict your bizzare fantasies.
If you knew half of what you thought you actually did, you would still be an
ignoramous.
Post by Sam's the little guy
French Intelligence Service analysis of WMD claims contradicts
http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/usallieswmd.html
Architect of the war Paul Wolfowitz, proclaims publically in a
interview with Vanity Fair that the supposed WMD were not the real
reason he wanted war on Saddams Iraq
And the point to that is? Besides the top of your head, of course.

- meanwhile, Jack Straw and Colin
Post by Sam's the little guy
Powell, whilst publically confident are privately doubtful about the
http://www.countercurrents.org/us-mackay020603.htm
It is amazing how you always seem to find the left-leaning American-bashing
sites to back up your bullshit. Try finding one that is actually
non-partisan, for a change. By the way, despite your hopes and wished,
Sodamn Insane won't be ruling in Iraq any time soon. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sam's the little guy
2005-06-09 13:31:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Sam's the little guy
I see you've surfaced again little ratBaron. I can only assume this
means you've found the quote you went off to find.
That IS why you went away, isn't it? To find the quote that you
repeatedly claimed to have in your posession, of me making remarks in
support of Mohammads sexual practices?
You have been bitch-slapped so many times that it is a wonder you can show
your face without being completely embarrassed. But then again, that is your
modis operandi: take positions then wait long enough for people to forget
about them, then deny them.
Google doesn't forget. Here's some transcripts from our previous
converstaions on the matter, dating from August of last year:
My original reply to your assertion:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/3d57c86278a63d85?hl=en

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/b58f1ad3b8f46c09&hl=en
Not that in the above, I explicitly asserted that you did not have the
quote that you claimed then (and given you haven't retracted, still
claim) to have in you possession: to have "duly noted".

Various followup discussions, in which you avoid discussing the matter
at hand, and then when confronted, leave the forum:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/c33cfa8477d8bc96/ddba2ed12b45e15c?q=Mohammad+(sex+OR+girl)+group:alt.fan.tolkien+author:***@hotmail.com&rnum=6&hl=en#ddba2ed12b45e15c
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/54ea0a305f108355/52f67fd98c349818?q=Mohammad+(sex+OR+girl)+group:alt.fan.tolkien+author:***@hotmail.com&rnum=5&hl=en#52f67fd98c349818
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/6abfc7f3cfe4aa39/11b2e4833427f9ae?q=Mohammad+(sex+OR+girl)+group:alt.fan.tolkien+author:***@hotmail.com&rnum=4&hl=en#11b2e4833427f9ae
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/cdd9cad570c96967/6006304a157d10b9?q=Mohammad+(sex+OR+girl)+group:alt.fan.tolkien+author:***@hotmail.com&rnum=2&hl=en#6006304a157d10b9

So. You still claim that somehow, I'm practicing some great deception
and that I really said the things you claim that I said.

So why not produce the quote? Why keep dodging and weaving - or, if you
know that you are wrong, why not simply admit it?
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Sam's the little guy
French Intelligence Service analysis of WMD claims contradicts
http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/usallieswmd.html
Architect of the war Paul Wolfowitz, proclaims publically in a
interview with Vanity Fair that the supposed WMD were not the real
reason he wanted war on Saddams Iraq
And the point to that is?
That your bizarre fantasies are busted. Again. Not even the architect
of the war thought that the supposed weapons posed any threat. He
openly admitted it was just an excuse, and that his (Wolfowitzs)
motivations came from something else.
Post by Baronjosefr
- meanwhile, Jack Straw and Colin
Post by Sam's the little guy
Powell, whilst publically confident are privately doubtful about the
http://www.countercurrents.org/us-mackay020603.htm
It is amazing how you always seem to find the left-leaning American-bashing
sites to back up your bullshit.
So you are asserting that Straw and Powell did not have the
conversation in question?
Christopher Kreuzer
2005-06-09 19:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam's the little guy
Google doesn't forget.
Google might not forget, but do you really have to drag out the "dirty
washing" history between you two every single time? Not everyone here
was around then, and pointing it out to them does neither of you any
favours. But then neither does the current round of "discussion". The
dead horse has shards of a broken record in it.
Morgil
2005-06-10 01:43:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Post by Sam's the little guy
Google doesn't forget.
Google might not forget, but do you really have to drag out the "dirty
washing" history between you two every single time?
Unfortunately that seems to be the only way to get the abusive
maniac like Baron to shut up. It is unpleasant, but much more
unpleasant would be to let him poison the newsgroup with his
endless stream of slandering insults and bad language. You
might notice that Sam took the issue up only when Baron fell
to his usual trademark juvenile insults: "You'd forget your
dick if it wasn't in your hand all the time." Past experience
has shown that when he starts on that line, he won't stop,
until someone shuts him up. As long as he minds his manners,
there's no need to drag out the dirt, but he has to understand
that it will happen *every* time he falls out the line. It is
the only way he'll learn...

Morgil
Baronjosefr
2005-06-10 02:21:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morgil
Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Post by Sam's the little guy
Google doesn't forget.
Google might not forget, but do you really have to drag out the "dirty
washing" history between you two every single time?
Unfortunately that seems to be the only way to get the abusive
maniac like Baron to shut up.
Well, I have been no more abusive to you than nature has. The fact that you
don't like little things like truths and proofs is no ones problem but your
own. Don't project your idiocy on to the rest of the world.. If you want to
ingulge in the grossest forms of aAnti-Americanism, then don't be surprised
when someone throws little things like facts into your face.



It is unpleasant, but much more
Post by Morgil
unpleasant would be to let him poison the newsgroup with his
endless stream of slandering insults and bad language. You
might notice that Sam took the issue up only when Baron fell
to his usual trademark juvenile insults: "You'd forget your
dick if it wasn't in your hand all the time." Past experience
has shown that when he starts on that line, he won't stop,
until someone shuts him up. As long as he minds his manners,
there's no need to drag out the dirt, but he has to understand
that it will happen *every* time he falls out the line. It is
the only way he'll learn...
Morgil
Sam's the little guy
2005-06-10 14:32:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Post by Sam's the little guy
Google doesn't forget.
Google might not forget, but do you really have to drag out the "dirty
washing" history between you two every single time?
Well, it's like this: Baron is a liar and someone incapable of
admitting when he/she is wrong. Reasoned discussion takes place between
two or more people capable of making the intellectual effort required
to understand an opposing argument and objectively evaluate their own
position, and thus potentially change their position in light of new
information. A person incapable of admitting that they are wrong, and
driven to lying to protect themselves even after making the most
trivial, most innocuous of errors is therefore incapable of rational
discussion with someone of an opposing viewpoint and is disqualified
from participation in anything of that nature.

So I preface all discussion with Baron by laying out the context and
giving him an opportunity to rejoin this community, if he chooses to
offer some proof that he has mended his ways. Eight months down the
track, he appears to have made no progress whatsoever.
Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Not everyone here
was around then, and pointing it out to them does neither of you any
favours. But then neither does the current round of "discussion". The
dead horse has shards of a broken record in it.
I'm not particularly interested in making myself look good. It's a
harsh and unpleasant practice, nevertheless if someone gets down and
scrubs away the putrid mess and as a result the whole place ends up
smelling a whole lot better, then the effort is worth it, I think.
Baronjosefr
2005-06-11 01:34:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Post by Sam's the little guy
Google doesn't forget.
Google might not forget, but do you really have to drag out the "dirty
washing" history between you two every single time?
Well, it's like this: Baron is a liar and someone incapable of
admitting when he/she is wrong.
I wne through a full list of your bullshit, point by point, and offered
multiple cites and sources to show you to be the inane, delusional fool you
are, and the only response anyone ever saw were weak denails, sheep-like
bleating, and fawning over fools like Arafuck.

Your second attempt at discredidation was claiming tht I was using sources
associated with the KKK and similar groups, meanwhile I was pulling
information, and provinding links, to the Red Cross, Amnesty International,
the Palestinians own information home page, and like sources, as well as
right-wing sources.

Your continuous denial of little things called facts and truths shows you to
be the mental midget that you truly are. .


Reasoned discussion takes place between
Post by Sam's the little guy
two or more people capable of making the intellectual effort required
to understand an opposing argument and objectively evaluate their own
position, and thus potentially change their position in light of new
information. A person incapable of admitting that they are wrong, and
driven to lying to protect themselves even after making the most
trivial, most innocuous of errors is therefore incapable of rational
discussion with someone of an opposing viewpoint and is disqualified
from participation in anything of that nature.
So I preface all discussion with Baron by laying out the context and
giving him an opportunity to rejoin this community, if he chooses to
offer some proof that he has mended his ways. Eight months down the
track, he appears to have made no progress whatsoever.
I would never want to rejoin a community where assholes like you spout
anti-American bullshit and expect every one else to fall in line behind your
terrorist-loving idiocy.
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Not everyone here
was around then, and pointing it out to them does neither of you any
favours. But then neither does the current round of "discussion". The
dead horse has shards of a broken record in it.
I'm not particularly interested in making myself look good. It's a
harsh and unpleasant practice, nevertheless if someone gets down and
scrubs away the putrid mess and as a result the whole place ends up
smelling a whole lot better, then the effort is worth it, I think.
Sam's the little guy
2005-06-11 13:11:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Post by Sam's the little guy
Google doesn't forget.
Google might not forget, but do you really have to drag out the "dirty
washing" history between you two every single time?
Well, it's like this: Baron is a liar and someone incapable of
admitting when he/she is wrong.
I wne through a full list of your bullshit, point by point, and offered
multiple cites and sources to show you to be the inane, delusional fool you
are, and the only response anyone ever saw were weak denails, sheep-like
bleating, and fawning over fools like Arafuck.
Luckily for us, Google recorded this apparently seminal utterance of
yours. Here it is:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/2a51ba8043dfff80?dmode=source&hl=en

My reply is directly beneath. Or if it doesn't show up, here:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/b83fd56b7ed86658?dmode=source&hl=en

And the astute reader will note that (a) You didn't reply or refute
anything that I said, and (b) I used quotes extensively, particularly
concerning Deir Yassin.
Post by Baronjosefr
Your second attempt at discredidation was claiming tht I was using sources
associated with the KKK and similar groups, meanwhile I was pulling
information, and provinding links, to the Red Cross, Amnesty International,
the Palestinians own information home page, and like sources, as well as
right-wing sources.
Let's examine the veracity of these supposed quotes on a case by case
basis:

Red Cross
---------
You claimed that the Red Cross supported your assertion that no
massacre occured in the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin. Most
notably, you didn't link to any material that said any such thing. By
way of a contast, we happen to have the testimony of two
representatives of the Red Cross who visited the scene shortly
afterwards.

<begin quote>
On Sunday, Palestine Red Cross delegate Jacques de Reynier,
accompanied by members of the Jewish Magen David Adom medical
organization, obtained access to the village. By then, a disciplined
"cleanup" was in progress. De Reynier could hear shots and screams as
well-equipped teens combed the town and thoroughly looted its houses.
Stopped near Deir Yassin's entrance, he could make out a man and woman
being stabbed to death. The squad leader--probably Lehi officer
Petachiah Zalivensky--assured him that "cleanup" would leave "not a
single Arab alive." De Reynier did find some still alive, however,
including a maimed little girl.(91)

The dead had been "deliberately massacred," de Reynier discerned
readily.(92) Alfred Engel, an accompanying Jewish doctor, saw that "it
was clear that [the attackers] had gone from house to house and shot
the people at close range."(93) "I had been a doctor in the German Army
for five years in World War One," Engel later reflected, "but I never
saw such a horrifying spectacle."(94) De Reynier reported his findings
to Jewish and Arab authorities, and with great difficulty, dodged the
press.(95) With the dead unburied, the Red Cross planning to return,
the British contemplating attacking the guerrillas, and a new
battlefront opened near Deir Yassin, by Monday, 12 April, the Haganah
decided to take full control of Deir Yassin from the Irgun and Lehi.
<end quote>

From:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2082/is_2_63/ai_72435149/pg_5


Amnesty International
--------------------
You claimed that Amnesty International supported your assertion that
Nelson Mandela is a murderer by linking to an article in which Amnesty
expressed concern about an outbreak of violence between a gang of IFP
followers and a gang of ANC followers. You pretended that this was some
kind of political assasination ordered personally by Nelson Mandela. It
was a brawl. So in summary, you don't have any credible evidence at all
for this allegation, and you resorted to fantasy.

Palestinian's Own Information Website
-------------------------------------
You made the assertion that it really was OK for Isreali terror squads
to kill nearly 500 palestinian kids because militants in the Fatah
movement paid kids money to make pipe bombs. To prove that this
happens, you linked to what you describe now as the "Palestinian's Own
Information Website". Now, plenty of kids in my country make pipe-bombs
as well. I don't approve of it, and then government certainly doesn't
pay them to do it. But only a sick, twisted vomitous individual would
think as you do - that it's ok for soldiers in armoured vehicles to
shoot kids dead if they are carrying a pipe bomb.
Post by Baronjosefr
Your continuous denial of little things called facts and truths shows you to
be the mental midget that you truly are. .
You claim to be producing "facts and truths": a simple experiment will
test the veracity of these claims. You say that as a matter of fact and
a truth, I claimed it was ok for Mohammad to engage in sex with a nine
year old. You claimed to have a citation of me saying it.

I say you don't have the citation.

Which of us is lying?

To prove that I am the liar and you are the truth teller, all you need
to do is produce the citation in question.
Baronjosefr
2005-06-11 19:25:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Post by Sam's the little guy
Google doesn't forget.
Google might not forget, but do you really have to drag out the "dirty
washing" history between you two every single time?
Well, it's like this: Baron is a liar and someone incapable of
admitting when he/she is wrong.
I wne through a full list of your bullshit, point by point, and offered
multiple cites and sources to show you to be the inane, delusional fool you
are, and the only response anyone ever saw were weak denails, sheep-like
bleating, and fawning over fools like Arafuck.
Luckily for us, Google recorded this apparently seminal utterance of
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/2a51ba8043dfff80?dmode=source&hl=en
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/b83fd56b7ed86658?dmode=source&hl=en
Post by Sam's the little guy
And the astute reader will note that (a) You didn't reply or refute
anything that I said, and (b) I used quotes extensively, particularly
concerning Deir Yassin.
I have already provided quotes from teh Red Cross, PBS, the BBC, and the
Palestinian Military for Deirt Yassin, who admitted fabricating the stories
of atrocitiesa. Your one link was to a Palestinian Authority website that
commemnorated the anniverery of the non-event. As soon as you can provide a
discreditation of the Palestinians from the town who admit there was no
massacre, you can shut the fuck up, or admit you were wrong.l
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
Your second attempt at discredidation was claiming tht I was using sources
associated with the KKK and similar groups, meanwhile I was pulling
information, and provinding links, to the Red Cross, Amnesty
International,
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
the Palestinians own information home page, and like sources, as well as
right-wing sources.
Let's examine the veracity of these supposed quotes on a case by case
Red Cross
---------
You claimed that the Red Cross supported your assertion that no
massacre occured in the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin. Most
notably, you didn't link to any material that said any such thing. By
way of a contast, we happen to have the testimony of two
representatives of the Red Cross who visited the scene shortly
afterwards.
<begin quote>
On Sunday, Palestine Red Cross delegate Jacques de Reynier,
accompanied by members of the Jewish Magen David Adom medical
organization, obtained access to the village. By then, a disciplined
"cleanup" was in progress. De Reynier could hear shots and screams as
well-equipped teens combed the town and thoroughly looted its houses.
Stopped near Deir Yassin's entrance, he could make out a man and woman
being stabbed to death. The squad leader--probably Lehi officer
Petachiah Zalivensky--assured him that "cleanup" would leave "not a
single Arab alive." De Reynier did find some still alive, however,
including a maimed little girl.(91)
The dead had been "deliberately massacred," de Reynier discerned
readily.(92) Alfred Engel, an accompanying Jewish doctor, saw that "it
was clear that [the attackers] had gone from house to house and shot
the people at close range."(93) "I had been a doctor in the German Army
for five years in World War One," Engel later reflected, "but I never
saw such a horrifying spectacle."(94) De Reynier reported his findings
to Jewish and Arab authorities, and with great difficulty, dodged the
press.(95) With the dead unburied, the Red Cross planning to return,
the British contemplating attacking the guerrillas, and a new
battlefront opened near Deir Yassin, by Monday, 12 April, the Haganah
decided to take full control of Deir Yassin from the Irgun and Lehi.
<end quote>
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2082/is_2_63/ai_72435149/pg_5
Amnesty International
--------------------
You claimed that Amnesty International supported your assertion that
Nelson Mandela is a murderer by linking to an article in which Amnesty
expressed concern about an outbreak of violence between a gang of IFP
followers and a gang of ANC followers. You pretended that this was some
kind of political assasination ordered personally by Nelson Mandela. It
was a brawl. So in summary, you don't have any credible evidence at all
for this allegation, and you resorted to fantasy.
Palestinian's Own Information Website
-------------------------------------
You made the assertion that it really was OK for Isreali terror squads
to kill nearly 500 palestinian kids because militants in the Fatah
movement paid kids money to make pipe bombs. To prove that this
happens, you linked to what you describe now as the "Palestinian's Own
Information Website". Now, plenty of kids in my country make pipe-bombs
as well. I don't approve of it, and then government certainly doesn't
pay them to do it. But only a sick, twisted vomitous individual would
think as you do - that it's ok for soldiers in armoured vehicles to
shoot kids dead if they are carrying a pipe bomb.
Post by Baronjosefr
Your continuous denial of little things called facts and truths shows you to
be the mental midget that you truly are. .
You claim to be producing "facts and truths": a simple experiment will
test the veracity of these claims. You say that as a matter of fact and
a truth, I claimed it was ok for Mohammad to engage in sex with a nine
year old. You claimed to have a citation of me saying it.
I say you don't have the citation.
Which of us is lying?
To prove that I am the liar and you are the truth teller, all you need
to do is produce the citation in question.
Sam's the little guy
2005-06-12 03:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baronjosefr
I have already provided quotes from teh Red Cross, PBS, the BBC, and the
Palestinian Military for Deirt Yassin, who admitted fabricating the stories
of atrocitiesa.
Liar.
You didn't provide evidence from these organisations, you simply
CLAIMED that supported your fabrication of massacre story, but when
pressed, you were unable to provide evidence for that claim. You took
de Reyniers comments concerning evidence of the planned, systematic
rape of women in Deir Yassin as proof of something completely
different, namely, that there was no massacre. Massacre and systematic
rape are different things, and of course, you know that and you know
that your supposed evidence does not support your claim. You just
pretend differently,ie you lie.
Post by Baronjosefr
Your one link was to a Palestinian Authority website that
commemnorated the anniverery of the non-event.
Liar - the main citation I have relied upon is this one:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2082/is_2_63/ai_72435149/pg_1
Written by Matthew Hogan - does that really sound Palestinean to you?
Post by Baronjosefr
As soon as you can provide a
discreditation of the Palestinians from the town who admit there was no
massacre,
Since the surviving townspeople, the Red Cross, the British
Authorities, the Israeli Government of the time, the Irgun and Lehi
fighters - in fact, anyone remotely connected says that the massacre
occurred just as history records it, I'm pretty sure you are just lying
about there being townspeople who deny it - the massacre, that is.
Post by Baronjosefr
you can shut the fuck up, or admit you were wrong.l
I think I will keep saying whatever I please, without making reference
to you or anyone else like you. And I can't help but to notice that you
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Sam's the little guy
You claim to be producing "facts and truths": a simple experiment will
test the veracity of these claims. You say that as a matter of fact and
a truth, I claimed it was ok for Mohammad to engage in sex with a nine
year old. You claimed to have a citation of me saying it.
I say you don't have the citation.
Which of us is lying?
To prove that I am the liar and you are the truth teller, all you need
to do is produce the citation in question.
So, which of us is actually lying? If you are not lying, why not
produce the required evidence to prove yourself?

Sam.
Baronjosefr
2005-06-13 03:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
I have already provided quotes from teh Red Cross, PBS, the BBC, and the
Palestinian Military for Deirt Yassin, who admitted fabricating the stories
of atrocitiesa.
Liar.
You didn't provide evidence from these organisations, you simply
CLAIMED that supported your fabrication of massacre story, but when
pressed, you were unable to provide evidence for that claim. You took
de Reyniers comments concerning evidence of the planned, systematic
rape of women in Deir Yassin as proof of something completely
different, namely, that there was no massacre. Massacre and systematic
rape are different things, and of course, you know that and you know
that your supposed evidence does not support your claim. You just
pretend differently,ie you lie.
You are frothing again. I supplied quotes from the Palestinian military
commander in the area, as well as the radio personality who admitted that
they worked togeher to concoct the story, to try and push neighboring arab
states to revenge. Links were supplied to the article in English and in
Arabic, from a Jordanian newspaper. Also, I supplied a link reference to a
BBC/PBS documentary where those claims were repeated by that same radio
person and miitary commander. I even provided you a link to where you could
go and buy the DVD, for that documentary.

I even supplied you links to massacres, committed by both sides, where there
was no doubt as to the disgraceful actions of the perpetrators. Which just
accentuates the fact that you are so blinded by your anti-jew attitudes that
you cannot accept basic truths, even when the facts are shoved into your
face over and over again.

My work here is done. I see no need to respond to, or even read, your next
tireless excuses as to why you are a intellectually stunted mental midget. I
leave you to now froth at the mouth and pretend that you actually have a
clue as to what is real. Meanwhile, know that I am laughing at you, as you
continue your efforts to deny reality. HAHAHAHAHAHA

Along with myriads of other links, I picked you apart on a dozen seperate
instances of your mentally stunted idiocy. None of which you ever bothered
to counter except with a few choice denials and whining and bleating that
would make a two-year old begging for candy proud
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
Your one link was to a Palestinian Authority website that
commemnorated the anniverery of the non-event.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2082/is_2_63/ai_72435149/pg_1
Written by Matthew Hogan - does that really sound Palestinean to you?
Post by Baronjosefr
As soon as you can provide a
discreditation of the Palestinians from the town who admit there was no
massacre,
Since the surviving townspeople, the Red Cross, the British
Authorities, the Israeli Government of the time, the Irgun and Lehi
fighters - in fact, anyone remotely connected says that the massacre
occurred just as history records it, I'm pretty sure you are just lying
about there being townspeople who deny it - the massacre, that is.
Post by Baronjosefr
you can shut the fuck up, or admit you were wrong.l
I think I will keep saying whatever I please, without making reference
to you or anyone else like you. And I can't help but to notice that you
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Sam's the little guy
You claim to be producing "facts and truths": a simple experiment will
test the veracity of these claims. You say that as a matter of fact and
a truth, I claimed it was ok for Mohammad to engage in sex with a nine
year old. You claimed to have a citation of me saying it.
I say you don't have the citation.
Which of us is lying?
To prove that I am the liar and you are the truth teller, all you need
to do is produce the citation in question.
So, which of us is actually lying? If you are not lying, why not
produce the required evidence to prove yourself?
Sam.
Sam's the little guy
2005-06-13 13:28:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
I have already provided quotes from teh Red Cross, PBS, the BBC, and the
Palestinian Military for Deirt Yassin, who admitted fabricating the
stories
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
of atrocitiesa.
Liar.
You didn't provide evidence from these organisations, you simply
CLAIMED that supported your fabrication of massacre story, but when
pressed, you were unable to provide evidence for that claim. You took
de Reyniers comments concerning evidence of the planned, systematic
rape of women in Deir Yassin as proof of something completely
different, namely, that there was no massacre. Massacre and systematic
rape are different things, and of course, you know that and you know
that your supposed evidence does not support your claim. You just
pretend differently,ie you lie.
You are frothing again. I supplied quotes from the Palestinian military
commander in the area, as well as the radio personality who admitted that
they worked togeher to concoct the story, to try and push neighboring arab
states to revenge. Links were supplied to the article in English and in
Arabic, from a Jordanian newspaper. Also, I supplied a link reference to a
BBC/PBS documentary where those claims were repeated by that same radio
person and miitary commander. I even provided you a link to where you could
go and buy the DVD, for that documentary.
Of, course, if you had bothered to check those supposed sources you
would have realised from the getgo that the quotes only dealt with
falsified claims of planned, systematic rape (indications from this
source
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2082/is_2_63/ai_72435149/pg_1
is that women were raped, but that it was not planned as part of the
attack). But maybe you are just too stupid to even read your own
quotes. Or you did realise it, and chose to try and deceive us. Same
difference.
Post by Michael O'Neill
[guff vacuumed]
I leave you
See you next time Baron. When you return, we'll pick up this
conversation where it left off. In the meantime, you might want to
consider again how you will go about answering the question I posed
below - because I'm going to keep asking whenever I think it necessary.
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Sam's the little guy
You claim to be producing "facts and truths": a simple experiment will
test the veracity of these claims. You say that as a matter of fact
and
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Sam's the little guy
a truth, I claimed it was ok for Mohammad to engage in sex with a nine
year old. You claimed to have a citation of me saying it.
I say you don't have the citation.
Which of us is lying?
To prove that I am the liar and you are the truth teller, all you need
to do is produce the citation in question.
So, which of us is actually lying? If you are not lying, why not
produce the required evidence to prove yourself?
Sam.
Baronjosefr
2005-06-10 02:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Sam:


You referencing your own bullshit really doesn't impress anyone but Morgil.
It is just like you to obfuscate, deny, and generally be a whining little
baby about any- and everything.

Go back to masturbating to your pictures of Arafat
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Sam's the little guy
I see you've surfaced again little ratBaron. I can only assume this
means you've found the quote you went off to find.
That IS why you went away, isn't it? To find the quote that you
repeatedly claimed to have in your posession, of me making remarks in
support of Mohammads sexual practices?
You have been bitch-slapped so many times that it is a wonder you can show
your face without being completely embarrassed. But then again, that is your
modis operandi: take positions then wait long enough for people to forget
about them, then deny them.
Google doesn't forget. Here's some transcripts from our previous
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/3d57c86278a63d85?hl=en
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/b58f1ad3b8f46c09&hl=en
Post by Sam's the little guy
Not that in the above, I explicitly asserted that you did not have the
quote that you claimed then (and given you haven't retracted, still
claim) to have in you possession: to have "duly noted".
Various followup discussions, in which you avoid discussing the matter
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/c33cfa8477d8bc96/ddba2ed12b45e15c?q=Mohammad+(sex+OR+girl)+group:alt.fan.tolkien+a
Post by Sam's the little guy
So. You still claim that somehow, I'm practicing some great deception
and that I really said the things you claim that I said.
So why not produce the quote? Why keep dodging and weaving - or, if you
know that you are wrong, why not simply admit it?
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Sam's the little guy
French Intelligence Service analysis of WMD claims contradicts
http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/usallieswmd.html
Architect of the war Paul Wolfowitz, proclaims publically in a
interview with Vanity Fair that the supposed WMD were not the real
reason he wanted war on Saddams Iraq
And the point to that is?
That your bizarre fantasies are busted. Again. Not even the architect
of the war thought that the supposed weapons posed any threat. He
openly admitted it was just an excuse, and that his (Wolfowitzs)
motivations came from something else.
Post by Baronjosefr
- meanwhile, Jack Straw and Colin
Post by Sam's the little guy
Powell, whilst publically confident are privately doubtful about the
http://www.countercurrents.org/us-mackay020603.htm
It is amazing how you always seem to find the left-leaning
American-bashing
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Baronjosefr
sites to back up your bullshit.
So you are asserting that Straw and Powell did not have the
conversation in question?
Sam's the little guy
2005-06-10 14:42:22 UTC
Permalink
Your blustering and equivocating around the point to be addressed is
boring and ultimately useless - eventually, you'll have to tell us -
(a) Do you have the quote in question (Yes/No)?
(b) If so, then where is it?
(c) If not, then why not admit you were wrong?
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Sam's the little guy
That your bizarre fantasies are busted. Again. Not even the architect
of the war thought that the supposed weapons posed any threat. He
openly admitted it was just an excuse, and that his (Wolfowitzs)
motivations came from something else.
Post by Sam's the little guy
- meanwhile, Jack Straw and Colin
Post by Sam's the little guy
Powell, whilst publically confident are privately doubtful about the
http://www.countercurrents.org/us-mackay020603.htm
It is amazing how you always seem to find the left-leaning
American-bashing
Post by Sam's the little guy
Post by Sam's the little guy
sites to back up your bullshit.
So you are asserting that Straw and Powell did not have the
conversation in question?
Waiting for an answer to this one as well. But first things first eh?
Henriette
2005-06-08 19:29:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Henriette
Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
USA, against the wish of the UN.
And against the wishes of Sodamn Insane, who owned France and Russia's U.N.
vote....don't forget that, please.
I'd be interested in the outcome of a referendum amongst the people of
Iraq, if they in retrospect, are for or against the invasion. What I
see in the daily news of the hostile reactions of the Iraqi people,
doesn't look one bit like the ecstatic happiness which came over Europe
when it was freed from the nazi's. So is this
car-bombing/foreign-soldiers-attacking group just a small group of
religious fanatics, or do they represent a majority of the Iraqi
people?

Henriette
Baronjosefr
2005-06-09 03:30:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
Post by Baronjosefr
Post by Henriette
Nevertheless the last war *we* were sucked into, was started by the
USA, against the wish of the UN.
And against the wishes of Sodamn Insane, who owned France and Russia's U.N.
vote....don't forget that, please.
I'd be interested in the outcome of a referendum amongst the people of
Iraq, if they in retrospect, are for or against the invasion. What I
see in the daily news of the hostile reactions of the Iraqi people,
doesn't look one bit like the ecstatic happiness which came over Europe
when it was freed from the nazi's.
If you read ALL the history books, you will find that there was a great deal
of similar activity in areas of Europe and Asia after the defeat of the
nazis and Imperial Japanese. And there is no doubt that the after-war
occupation was botched. And if you would care to notice, the vast majority
of attacks are directed at Iraqi Security forces, not the U.S. And, although
this is not reported at all in the left-leaning European and North American
papers, there is a great deal of anger in the basic Iraqi populace that is
directed at the foreign-born terrorists, for their indiscriminate decimation
of regular Iraqis.

So is this
Post by Henriette
car-bombing/foreign-soldiers-attacking group just a small group of
religious fanatics, or do they represent a majority of the Iraqi
people?
neither. I wouldn't insult the true meaning of Islam by saying those idiots
are religious zealots. and there are a small number of Iraqis that will lay
down arms quickly when the occupation is over. The issue will remain
Zarqawi, and his fellow assholes, of course.
Post by Henriette
Henriette
Henriette
2005-06-19 16:00:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baronjosefr
If you read ALL the history books, you will find that there was a great deal
of similar activity in areas of Europe and Asia after the defeat of the
nazis and Imperial Japanese.
*Not in my country*. The Germans and their sympathisers fled or were
extremely quickly caught and thrown into concentration camps.
Post by Baronjosefr
And there is no doubt that the after-war
occupation was botched. And if you would care to notice, the vast majority
of attacks are directed at Iraqi Security forces, not the U.S.
I do indeed notice that a vast amount of both Iraqi Security Forces and
American (and other nationalities) soldiers are killed. Terrible! The
*same* news every day as soon as I get in touch with any of our media.
And then we haven't talked psychological damage.
Post by Baronjosefr
And, although
this is not reported at all in the left-leaning European and North American
papers, there is a great deal of anger in the basic Iraqi populace that is
directed at the foreign-born terrorists, for their indiscriminate decimation
of regular Iraqis.
Most likely that goes indeed for a part of the population, apart from
the fact that I suppose the vast majority would like all killings to
stop.
Post by Baronjosefr
So is this
Post by Henriette
car-bombing/foreign-soldiers-attacking group just a small group of
religious fanatics, or do they represent a majority of the Iraqi
people?
neither. I wouldn't insult the true meaning of Islam by saying those idiots
are religious zealots. and there are a small number of Iraqis that will lay
down arms quickly when the occupation is over. The issue will remain
Zarqawi, and his fellow assholes, of course.
Baron, I don't mind at all discussing these important topics. Au
contraire, for me, very interesting arguments have been brought up in
these threads by both camps. But your choice of swearwords often annoys
me. Furthermore, I saw no reason why you should suddenly start to
insult Morgil in this thread, who was merely discussing politely with
you but happened to disagree.

My colleague Leo gives 'American culture lessons' to Dutch people who
will go to work in the USA and he says: on the average 'over there' the
idea is: 'one is either for us or against us, and when you disagree
with me you're against us and we will have nothing to do with you'.
In my country it is not like that (anymore). The days of keelhauling
are past. We may have discussions, we may raise our voices and totally
disagree, but afterwards we will all go and have a pint.
So we may have a culture clash here as well. I'm not against you or the
USA. I am looking for the Truth in these matters.

Henriette
Flame of the West
2005-06-19 18:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
My colleague Leo gives 'American culture lessons' to Dutch people who
will go to work in the USA and he says: on the average 'over there' the
idea is: 'one is either for us or against us, and when you disagree
with me you're against us and we will have nothing to do with you'.
There is a lot of that but it isn't universal. IMO, our allies were
with us when it counted, i.e. in Afghanistan after 9/11. Iraq was
something else entirely, and we have no cause to be offended when
some of our friends don't go along with us. I doubt I'm the only
one who feels this way.
Post by Henriette
In my country it is not like that (anymore). The days of keelhauling
are past. We may have discussions, we may raise our voices and totally
disagree, but afterwards we will all go and have a pint.
You may have found the problem: here in the US, there aren't very
many places to go for a decent pint. (And even when the beer is
good, our pints are too small!) I was in Dublin last week on
business, and I can attest that it's hard to stay angry about
anything when you're always a short walk from a pint of Guinness.


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Sam's the little guy
2005-06-21 07:39:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
There is a lot of that but it isn't universal. IMO, our allies were
with us when it counted, i.e. in Afghanistan after 9/11. Iraq was
something else entirely, and we have no cause to be offended when
some of our friends don't go along with us. I doubt I'm the only
one who feels this way.
No doubt you aren't. Unfortunately the voice of reason is not the voice
that most Non-Usaens hear. Rather we hear President Bush, who just last
week once again claimed that Iraq was connected to the attacks on the
WTC.

http://www.siteinstitute.org/bin/articles.cgi?ID=publications58405&Category=publications&Subcategory=0
Henriette
2005-06-21 17:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
My colleague Leo gives 'American culture lessons' to Dutch people who
will go to work in the USA and he says: on the average 'over there' the
idea is: 'one is either for us or against us, and when you disagree
with me you're against us and we will have nothing to do with you'.
There is a lot of that but it isn't universal.(snip)
You mean 'universal' in the USA? You're such a great punner when you
don't pay attention;-)
(snip)I was in Dublin last week on
business, and I can attest that it's hard to stay angry about
anything when you're always a short walk from a pint of Guinness.
*Short* walk indeed! Did you see the Book of Kells and the Library it
is in?
Very impressive.

Henriette
Een Wilde Ier
2005-06-21 19:57:35 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Henriette
(snip)I was in Dublin last week on
business, and I can attest that it's hard to stay angry about
anything when you're always a short walk from a pint of Guinness.
*Short* walk indeed! Did you see the Book of Kells and the Library it
is in?
Very impressive.
Enough that one talks in a hush in the face of such treasures ;-)
Flame of the West
2005-06-22 03:27:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
*Short* walk indeed! Did you see the Book of Kells and the Library it
is in?
Very impressive.
My colleague and I had a few hours after the conference,
and we were hoping to see the Book of Kells, but we got
there an hour or so after the library closed. I've
always wanted to see it, so I'll just have to find an
excuse to go again. (Don't feel too bad for me, though:
we missed the Book of Kells because we went to the
Guinness storehouse first!)


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Flame of the West
2005-06-22 03:29:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
My colleague and I had a few hours after the conference,
and we were hoping to see the Book of Kells, but we got
there an hour or so after the library closed. I've
always wanted to see it, so I'll just have to find an
we missed the Book of Kells because we went to the
Guinness storehouse first!)
Speaking of which, my colleague used to teach at
Wheaton College in Illinois. That's where the
Marion Wade center is, with all sorts of Lewis
and Tolkien stuff, such as the desk at which
JRRT wrote The Hobbit. Another place I need to
see someday.


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Yuk Tang
2005-06-22 08:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
Post by Henriette
*Short* walk indeed! Did you see the Book of Kells and the
Library it is in?
Very impressive.
My colleague and I had a few hours after the conference,
and we were hoping to see the Book of Kells, but we got
there an hour or so after the library closed. I've
always wanted to see it, so I'll just have to find an
we missed the Book of Kells because we went to the
Guinness storehouse first!)
It just means that you'll have to visit the Book of Reuel instead.
--
Cheers, ymt.
Een Wilde Ier
2005-06-22 20:36:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
Post by Henriette
*Short* walk indeed! Did you see the Book of Kells and the Library it
is in?
Very impressive.
My colleague and I had a few hours after the conference,
and we were hoping to see the Book of Kells, but we got
there an hour or so after the library closed. I've
always wanted to see it, so I'll just have to find an
we missed the Book of Kells because we went to the
Guinness storehouse first!)
I feel obliged to be my usual spoilsport to tourists taken in by the
carefully-engineered Guinness myth: but you *do* know that that lot (the
Guinness/Lord Iveagh family, before they sold out) were Southern
Unionists who wouldn't employ an Irish Catholic until (if memory serves)
the late '60s?
Flame of the West
2005-06-23 00:07:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
I feel obliged to be my usual spoilsport to tourists taken in by the
carefully-engineered Guinness myth: but you *do* know that that lot (the
Guinness/Lord Iveagh family, before they sold out) were Southern
Unionists who wouldn't employ an Irish Catholic until (if memory serves)
the late '60s?
Yes, and I also remember that Guinness bought up most of their
competitors and wiped out their memories so that "Guinness"
would be more or less synonymous with "Stout."

But I'm willing to forgive and forget. Besides, the Protestants
stole just about everything of value in Ireland (the land, the
Book of Kells, all the old churches, etc.), while their English
overlords starved or drove out six of the eight million living
there in 1840, something even Oliver Cromwell didn't dare dream
of, so what's a little job discrimination compared to all that?


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Een Wilde Ier
2005-06-23 00:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
Post by Een Wilde Ier
I feel obliged to be my usual spoilsport to tourists taken in by the
carefully-engineered Guinness myth: but you *do* know that that lot
(the Guinness/Lord Iveagh family, before they sold out) were Southern
Unionists who wouldn't employ an Irish Catholic until (if memory
serves) the late '60s?
Yes, and I also remember that Guinness bought up most of their
competitors and wiped out their memories so that "Guinness"
would be more or less synonymous with "Stout."
Yup. The Iveaghs were some piece of work, all right.
Post by Flame of the West
But I'm willing to forgive and forget. Besides, the Protestants
stole just about everything of value in Ireland (the land, the
Book of Kells, all the old churches, etc.), while their English
overlords starved or drove out six of the eight million living
there in 1840, something even Oliver Cromwell didn't dare dream
of,
_There's_ what AFT's missing - a good 'Irish history' flamethread.
Post by Flame of the West
so what's a little job discrimination compared to all that?
It's much closer to the modern day (within living memory), and Guinness
PR are waving shamrock at every opportunity, oblivious to the real history?
Flame of the West
2005-06-23 07:09:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
It's much closer to the modern day (within living memory), and Guinness
PR are waving shamrock at every opportunity, oblivious to the real history?
What gets me is how the displays at the Guinness storehouse
virtually canonize Arthur Guinness as this incredible genius
who is a great inspiration to us all down through the
centuries. If I went on about Tolkien like that, I'd be
labelled a fanboy.


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Henriette
2005-06-25 11:02:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Flame of the West
But I'm willing to forgive and forget. Besides, the Protestants
stole just about everything of value in Ireland (the land, the
Book of Kells, all the old churches, etc.), while their English
overlords starved or drove out six of the eight million living
there in 1840, something even Oliver Cromwell didn't dare dream
of,
_There's_ what AFT's missing - a good 'Irish history' flamethread.
When you'll empty your killfile, you'll have one in no time.

HB
Een Wilde Ier
2005-07-12 19:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Flame of the West
But I'm willing to forgive and forget. Besides, the Protestants
stole just about everything of value in Ireland (the land, the
Book of Kells, all the old churches, etc.), while their English
overlords starved or drove out six of the eight million living
there in 1840, something even Oliver Cromwell didn't dare dream
of,
_There's_ what AFT's missing - a good 'Irish history' flamethread.
When you'll empty your killfile, you'll have one in no time.
No thank you!!!
ssssooo
2005-08-22 22:07:12 UTC
Permalink
Kerry lost. Stop crying

Henriette
2005-06-25 10:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Flame of the West
My colleague and I had a few hours after the conference,
and we were hoping to see the Book of Kells, but we got
there an hour or so after the library closed. I've
always wanted to see it, so I'll just have to find an
we missed the Book of Kells because we went to the
Guinness storehouse first!)
I feel obliged to be my usual spoilsport to tourists taken in by the
carefully-engineered Guinness myth: but you *do* know that that lot (the
Guinness/Lord Iveagh family, before they sold out) were Southern
Unionists who wouldn't employ an Irish Catholic until (if memory serves)
the late '60s?
"NO IRISH NEED APPLY"

I'm a decent boy just landed
Post by Een Wilde Ier
From the town of Ballyfad;
I want a situation, yes,
And want it very bad.
I have seen employment advertised,
"It's just the thing," says I,
"But the dirty spalpeen ended with
'No Irish Need Apply.' " (snip)

HB
Een Wilde Ier
2005-07-12 19:26:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Flame of the West
My colleague and I had a few hours after the conference,
and we were hoping to see the Book of Kells, but we got
there an hour or so after the library closed. I've
always wanted to see it, so I'll just have to find an
we missed the Book of Kells because we went to the
Guinness storehouse first!)
I feel obliged to be my usual spoilsport to tourists taken in by the
carefully-engineered Guinness myth: but you *do* know that that lot (the
Guinness/Lord Iveagh family, before they sold out) were Southern
Unionists who wouldn't employ an Irish Catholic until (if memory serves)
the late '60s?
"NO IRISH NEED APPLY"
I'm a decent boy just landed
Post by Een Wilde Ier
From the town of Ballyfad;
I want a situation, yes,
And want it very bad.
I have seen employment advertised,
"It's just the thing," says I,
"But the dirty spalpeen ended with
'No Irish Need Apply.' " (snip)
Quite the singer you are becoming... ;-)
Henriette
2005-06-25 10:42:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
Post by Henriette
*Short* walk indeed! Did you see the Book of Kells and the Library it
is in?
Very impressive.
My colleague and I had a few hours after the conference,
and we were hoping to see the Book of Kells, but we got
there an hour or so after the library closed. (snip)
We got there straight from the Airport an hour or so *before* the
library closed;-) which gave us very little time to see the impressive
Library, the Book of Kells and some other beautiful manuscripts which
were displayed. Fortunately the Wilde Ier found the library-shop had a
grand Book-of-Kells-DVD!

Henriette
Een Wilde Ier
2005-07-12 19:27:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
Post by Flame of the West
Post by Henriette
*Short* walk indeed! Did you see the Book of Kells and the Library it
is in?
Very impressive.
My colleague and I had a few hours after the conference,
and we were hoping to see the Book of Kells, but we got
there an hour or so after the library closed. (snip)
We got there straight from the Airport an hour or so *before* the
library closed;-) which gave us very little time to see the impressive
Library, the Book of Kells and some other beautiful manuscripts which
were displayed. Fortunately the Wilde Ier found the library-shop had a
grand Book-of-Kells-DVD!
Which was - as I quickly checked before buying it - Mac-compatible as
well! ;-)
Henriette
2005-07-26 18:00:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
(snip) Fortunately the Wilde Ier found the library-shop had a
grand Book-of-Kells-DVD!
Which was - as I quickly checked before buying it - Mac-compatible as
well! ;-)
Some days it does not seem Mac-compatible at all, but that may be
because of its wild Irish soul!
BTW do you expect any spectacular nouveauté's at the September
Mac-Fair?

HB
Een Wilde Ier
2005-07-26 19:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
Post by Een Wilde Ier
(snip) Fortunately the Wilde Ier found the library-shop had a
grand Book-of-Kells-DVD!
Which was - as I quickly checked before buying it - Mac-compatible as
well! ;-)
Some days it does not seem Mac-compatible at all, but that may be
because of its wild Irish soul!
LOL.
Post by Henriette
BTW do you expect any spectacular nouveauté's at the September
Mac-Fair?
I honestly don't know! Maybe I should consult the tea-leaves ;-)
Henriette
2005-07-27 11:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Henriette
BTW do you expect any spectacular nouveauté's at the September
Mac-Fair?
I honestly don't know! Maybe I should consult the tea-leaves ;-)
I'm sure Professor Trelawney will be thrilled with the outcome!

HB
Een Wilde Ier
2005-08-01 11:20:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Henriette
BTW do you expect any spectacular nouveauté's at the September
Mac-Fair?
I honestly don't know! Maybe I should consult the tea-leaves ;-)
I'm sure Professor Trelawney will be thrilled with the outcome!
LOL. I was wondering if you would pick up on the reference, HP being
heavy in the air these days ;-)
Henriette
2005-08-21 11:34:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Henriette
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Henriette
BTW do you expect any spectacular nouveauté's at the September
Mac-Fair?
I honestly don't know! Maybe I should consult the tea-leaves ;-)
I'm sure Professor Trelawney will be thrilled with the outcome!
LOL. I was wondering if you would pick up on the reference, HP being
heavy in the air these days ;-)
Maybe I did because one of the questions that regularly pops up into my
consciousness, where it bubbles just below the surface, is why
Professor Trelawney and her tealeaves are pictured as frauds in a book
like HP, where anything else is real and possible!

HB
Een Wilde Ier
2005-06-21 19:51:16 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Flame of the West
Post by Henriette
In my country it is not like that (anymore). The days of keelhauling
are past. We may have discussions, we may raise our voices and totally
disagree, but afterwards we will all go and have a pint.
:-)
Post by Flame of the West
You may have found the problem: here in the US, there aren't very
many places to go for a decent pint. (And even when the beer is
good, our pints are too small!) I was in Dublin last week on
business, and I can attest that it's hard to stay angry about
anything when you're always a short walk from a pint of Guinness.
Well, the next time you're around, _drop us a damn email_!
Flame of the West
2005-06-22 03:24:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Well, the next time you're around, _drop us a damn email_!
Sorry, but I really wouldn't have had time for anything,
it was a conference in which I was busy pretty much the
whole time. (It was at DCU, is that where you are?)

I really enjoyed Dublin; it's obviously much more busy
and prosperous than 25 years ago when I last visited.
Building everywhere it seems. The weather was beautiful
(I like it cool and dry; here it was in the low 30's C.
and very humid). I'm hoping our host can be talked into
hosting another conference.


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Een Wilde Ier
2005-06-22 20:44:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Well, the next time you're around, _drop us a damn email_!
Sorry, but I really wouldn't have had time for anything,
it was a conference in which I was busy pretty much the
whole time. (It was at DCU, is that where you are?)
Just. Down. The. Road. And Mr. O'Neill would probably have dropped into
town and even (if we were really lucky) have given us a ride in his big
silver Beemer.
Post by Flame of the West
I really enjoyed Dublin; it's obviously much more busy
and prosperous than 25 years ago when I last visited.
Yes, it's been like this for the past twelve/thirteen years solid. As
you also no doubt noticed, it's become pretty cosmopolitan. Especially
with so many Spanish, Italians and French and an eastern european
population steadily heading for the 100,000 mark (all _very_ welcome.
Now if we could just deport the scumbag families living in the city
centre to a nice island...)
Post by Flame of the West
Building everywhere it seems. The weather was beautiful
(I like it cool and dry; here it was in the low 30's C.
and very humid). I'm hoping our host can be talked into
hosting another conference.
You were very, very lucky: the weather has only just turned that way,
having been pretty crappy for the last couple of months.
Post by Flame of the West
-- FotW
Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Raven
2005-06-22 22:01:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Now if we could just deport the scumbag families living in the city
centre to a nice island...)
Isn't Ireland already a nice island? :-)

Crú.
Een Wilde Ier
2005-06-22 22:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raven
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Now if we could just deport the scumbag families living in the city
centre to a nice island...)
Isn't Ireland already a nice island? :-)
Dublin isn't very safe in some parts of the inner city (to put it
mildly), in fact I would go so far as to say that some areas are
completely out of control.

This isn't just my opinion; it's the consensus for ordinary decent
working-class Dubs, people from the country living here, foreign
nationals, (and, unofficially) the Guards, the Fire Brigade and the City
Council.

You really are putting your person and property in jeopardy if you live
in the inner city - from the men, women, children (yes!), drunks, crooks
and junkies. I was in Cracow the other week and it was remarkable how
safe it was in comparison. In Dublin you keep your eyes on the ground
and carefully ignore even the worst provocation (verbal, physical,
missiles) on the streets.
Raven
2005-06-23 19:41:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Dublin isn't very safe in some parts of the inner city (to put it
mildly), in fact I would go so far as to say that some areas are
completely out of control.
[...]

You should raise an army of Tooks then. :-)

Crú.
Henriette
2005-06-25 10:27:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raven
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Dublin isn't very safe in some parts of the inner city (to put it
mildly), in fact I would go so far as to say that some areas are
completely out of control.
[...]
You should raise an army of Tooks then. :-)
Or try arming your Garda's;-)

Henriette
Een Wilde Ier
2005-07-12 19:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
Post by Raven
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Dublin isn't very safe in some parts of the inner city (to put it
mildly), in fact I would go so far as to say that some areas are
completely out of control.
[...]
You should raise an army of Tooks then. :-)
Or try arming your Garda's;-)
Or carrying a hurley... (in my college days, I got by through always
having a large wooden t-square with me)
Henriette
2005-07-26 17:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Henriette
Post by Raven
You should raise an army of Tooks then. :-)
Or try arming your Garda's;-)
Or carrying a hurley... (in my college days, I got by through always
having a large wooden t-square with me)
A large wooden t-square? Like...a cross?;-)

HB
Een Wilde Ier
2005-07-26 19:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Henriette
Post by Raven
You should raise an army of Tooks then. :-)
Or try arming your Garda's;-)
Or carrying a hurley... (in my college days, I got by through always
having a large wooden t-square with me)
A large wooden t-square? Like...a cross?;-)
I admit that I have a tendency to carry crosses, but not in this case ;-)

Something like this: Loading Image...
Henriette
2005-07-27 11:06:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Henriette
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Or carrying a hurley... (in my college days, I got by through always
having a large wooden t-square with me)
A large wooden t-square? Like...a cross?;-)
I admit that I have a tendency to carry crosses, but not in this case ;-)
Something like this: http://www.keysan.com/pictures/big/a0002597.jpg
Was anything written on it?

HB
Een Wilde Ier
2005-08-01 11:19:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henriette
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Henriette
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Or carrying a hurley... (in my college days, I got by through always
having a large wooden t-square with me)
A large wooden t-square? Like...a cross?;-)
I admit that I have a tendency to carry crosses, but not in this case ;-)
Something like this: http://www.keysan.com/pictures/big/a0002597.jpg
Was anything written on it?
Yes, my name ;-)
Henriette
2005-08-21 11:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Post by Henriette
Post by Een Wilde Ier
Something like this: http://www.keysan.com/pictures/big/a0002597.jpg
Was anything written on it?
Yes, my name ;-)
In case you forgot it;-)?

HB
Een Wilde Ier
2005-06-21 19:49:09 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Henriette
Post by Baronjosefr
And there is no doubt that the after-war
occupation was botched. And if you would care to notice, the vast majority
of attacks are directed at Iraqi Security forces, not the U.S.
I do indeed notice that a vast amount of both Iraqi Security Forces and
American (and other nationalities) soldiers are killed. Terrible! The
*same* news every day as soon as I get in touch with any of our media.
And then we haven't talked psychological damage.
Or the maimed, or all the 'civilian' US casualties who so often go
unreported.
Yuk Tang
2005-06-03 08:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flame of the West
I doubt he's worried so much as gleeful because he dislikes
Chirac. Most Americans (apart from neoconservative unilateralists)
wish Europe well and welcome the development of a stable and
prosperous community there. The level of integration needed for
that is completely up to Europeans. I know *I* wouldn't want that
level of integration into an international superstate, but it's
pretty obvious that we Americans think differently from you on a
lot of things. I admit the democrat in me doesn't relish watching
integration being imposed on so many countries by political elites
without popular votes. But the most important thing to me is that
Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
since we inevitably get sucked into them.
Let me ask again, how can I register to vote for President Flame? It'd
be nice if all Americans thought like this.
--
Cheers, ymt.
Morgil
2005-06-03 20:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yuk Tang
Post by Flame of the West
I doubt he's worried so much as gleeful because he dislikes
Chirac. Most Americans (apart from neoconservative unilateralists)
wish Europe well and welcome the development of a stable and
prosperous community there. The level of integration needed for
that is completely up to Europeans. I know *I* wouldn't want that
level of integration into an international superstate, but it's
pretty obvious that we Americans think differently from you on a
lot of things. I admit the democrat in me doesn't relish watching
integration being imposed on so many countries by political elites
without popular votes. But the most important thing to me is that
Europe keep its act together and not plunge into any more wars,
since we inevitably get sucked into them.
Let me ask again, how can I register to vote for President Flame? It'd
be nice if all Americans thought like this.
:-O

Don't even jest...

Morgil
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