LOTR is better than Star Trek

[Christopher]

Sorry this isn't off-topic. And this was probably inevitable, if it
wasn't posted before..

But after watching that third LOTR movie, I really think The Lord of
the Rings is a lot more impressive than what Star Trek is now.

Star Trek had its day when TOS, TNG, and DS9 were around.......but now
it's dead. Face reality, and move on. Now I wish Enterprise could just
die off peacefully, and make more room for better fantasy/sci-fi
shows, like one based in a Tolkien LOTR world.

Where races are concerned, elves, hobbits, wizards, dwarves,
etc......are so much more impressive than Vulcans (boring, zzz)
Romulans, Klingons, etc. Storywise, there is just something more epic
about LOTR. It has more depth, more adventure......aspects which
existed in Star Trek: The Next Generation, which are now lost in Star
Trek: Enterprise.

Now I completely understand why ST: Nemesis failed ---- The Two Towers
destroyed it at the box office! There is no other reason ---- people
wanted quality, and quality is what they got with LOTR.

Maybe one day Star Trek will make a comeback, but until then,
Tolkien's stories leads the way...

[Exeter]

Post by Christopher
But after watching that third LOTR movie, I really think The Lord of
the Rings is a lot more impressive than what Star Trek is now.

WTF does one have to do with the other? You are comparing apples and
goat testicles.

[Derek]

While intrepidly exploring alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise, Exeter

Post by Exeter

Post by Christopher
But after watching that third LOTR movie, I really think The Lord
of the Rings is a lot more impressive than what Star Trek is now.

WTF does one have to do with the other? You are comparing apples
and goat testicles.

Not really. I've been a fan of Trek since I was a kid. And yet I
thought Nemesis stunk (my wife doesn't even remember seeing the
movie, that's how bad it was). On the other hand, I fully enjoyed
LOTR, even though I had only read the book the year before the first
movie came out.

The comparison that Christopher was making, as I see it, is that the
quality of the story that enthralled people in LOTR is painfully
absent from the current incarnation of Trek.

Not that Trek should aspire to be as grandiose as LOTR. But at least
in LOTR, I cared what happened to the people at Helm's deep. But I'm
not sure I care at all what happens to Enterprise or any of Archer's
crew.

Well, maybe Phlox. He's at least interesting.

[Exeter]

Post by Derek
The comparison that Christopher was making, as I see it, is that the
quality of the story that enthralled people in LOTR is painfully
absent from the current incarnation of Trek.

So you are trying to compare someone as brilliant as Tolkein to B&B's
hired retards? As I said before....apples and goat testicles.

[€€€ Abo €€€]

Derek raved thus:

:: Not really. I've been a fan of Trek since I was a kid. And yet I
:: thought Nemesis stunk (my wife doesn't even remember seeing the
:: movie, that's how bad it was).

My wife's comment at the start of Nemesis (where Janeway talks to Picard)
sums up what she thought of Voyager: 'oh, they got home then?'

[Graeme]

WTF does one have to do with the other? You are comparing apples and goat

testicles.
I don't think his comparison is entirely out of line. It's a fact that a lot
of people who like one of these also like the other. They tend to attract the
same sort of audience.

[Batman]

Post by Exeter

Post by Christopher
But after watching that third LOTR movie, I really think The Lord of
the Rings is a lot more impressive than what Star Trek is now.

WTF does one have to do with the other? You are comparing apples and
goat testicles.

As long as we understand that LOTR is the sweet gala apple, while ST is the
sweaty goat testicle.






-jeff

[kitznegari thinks it has wings]

Post by Exeter
WTF does one have to do with the other? You are comparing apples and
goat testicles.

LOL

- k i t z -
i will take you to the oracle, but first i must aporogize.
bite me at: http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=kitznegari

[Charles Barber]

"Christopher" <***@att.net> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...
.

Post by Christopher
Where races are concerned, elves, hobbits, wizards, dwarves,
etc......are so much more impressive than Vulcans (boring, zzz)
Romulans, Klingons, etc.

Star Trek Races are boring because, everything about those races are
designed to highlight and sell, a high profile cast member or guest star..
The races can be rewritten, changed to fit the image of the character they
wish to put across. Remove T'Pol, there is nothing left that would make the
Vulcan's interesting. Or the Klingons exist only to provide, Archer the
chance to play whale, to Duras' Ahab.

[David Johnston]

Post by Christopher
Star Trek had its day when TOS, TNG, and DS9 were around.......but now
it's dead. Face reality, and move on. Now I wish Enterprise could just
die off peacefully, and make more room for better fantasy/sci-fi
shows, like one based in a Tolkien LOTR world.

Your first mistake lies in comparing a movie that took years and
hundreds of millions of dollars to make to a tv series with 20+
episodes per year. Your second mistake lies in assuming that
Enterprise will make room for fantasy/scifi shows. It won't.
It will make room for reality shows.

[Graeme]

Post by David Johnston
Your first mistake lies in comparing a movie that took years and
hundreds of millions of dollars to make to a tv series with 20+
episodes per year.

That's silly. Do you know there's an entire newsgroup devoted to Star Trek vs.
Star Wars? That's exactly the same type of comparison. Same genre, but still
comparing multi-million dollar movies to comparatively cheap TV episodes.

Post by David Johnston

Your second mistake lies in assuming that Enterprise will make room for

fantasy/scifi shows. It won't. It will make room for reality shows.
Enterprise will make way for reality shows about watching grass grow.

[Tim Smith]

Post by Graeme
That's silly. Do you know there's an entire newsgroup devoted to Star
Trek vs. Star Wars? That's exactly the same type of comparison. Same
genre, but still comparing multi-million dollar movies to comparatively
cheap TV episodes.

Yeah...which is why Star Wars has much better effects than Star Trek.
However, they didn't seem to put much of those millions of dollars into
writing, because Star Trek (not counting "Enterprise") has come up with
better stories.

I bet if took someone who had never seen Star Wars or Star Trek, and showed
them all the Star Wars movies, in order of release, and showed them all of
Deep Space 9, except for the last 1/4 of the last season, and then gave them
a choice of seeing either Episode III, or seeing the list 1/4 of DS9, but
not both, they would be far more likely to want to finish DS9.

[Graeme]

Post by Tim Smith
Yeah...which is why Star Wars has much better effects than Star Trek.

However, they didn't seem to put much of those millions of dollars into
writing, because Star Trek (not counting "Enterprise") has come up with better
stories.
Not counting Voyager either.

Post by Tim Smith
I bet if took someone who had never seen Star Wars or Star Trek, and showed

them all the Star Wars movies, in order of release, and showed them all of Deep
Space 9, except for the last 1/4 of the last season, and then gave them a
choice of seeing either Episode III, or seeing the list 1/4 of DS9, but not
both, they would be far more likely to want to finish DS9.
I have to admit DS9 didn't grab me much. I recognized it as being a good show
(probably the third best Trek show after TOS and TAS), but it wasn't one that I
felt compelled to watch or rewatch.

But effects do seem to mean a lot to people. Especially in computer games,
where it's impossible to keep even a great game on the shelves longer than
about 6 months because people want the better graphics.

[me]

HEY!!! How about a movie that's a LOTR/ST-TNG crossover? (heeheeheee...)

- Riker and Picard debate the merits of the Prime Directive's role in
whether or not they should intefere in the quest to destroy the ring.
(Picard: "Will, if Sauron succeeds, then it is not just Middle Earth that
will fall, but this entire star system will be under his sway - and he will
not stop there, with the One Ring in his possesion, Sauron could destroy the
Federation, AND the combined might of the Klingon and Romulan empires...")

- Against Picard's direct orders, Dr Crusher beams Frodo up to
sickbay.("Dammit, Jean Luc! I just don't know enough about Hobbit physiology
to be able to save his life using just a medical tricorder down there on the
surface!")

- Guinan: "Did you say Gandalf? Why, yes, he's an old friend of mine..."

- Lt Cmdr Data in a game of riddles against Gollum.

- Worf kills the Witch King in the Battle of Pelenor Fields.

- Geordi gives Merry and Pippin a tour of the engineering section. (Pippin:
"What does this button do? The one that says 'Matter/Antimatter Intermix'?"
Merry: "Pip, leave things alone...")

- Deanna Troy at the Council of Elrond: "I'm sensing great evil here
Captain..."

- Data calculates the odds of the success of the battle of Helm's Deep to be
"Approximately 7, 360, 437 to 1."

- Handphasers used against the Nazgul.

- A scene where the Elves meet the Vulcans.

- The Eye of Sauron taking pot shots at the Enterprise in orbit around
Middle Earth.

- Worf to Sam and Frodo: "You *are* small, but your sense of honor is very
great. You are both great warriors - it would honor me to fight beside you."

- Aragorn: "You shall have my sword", Legolas: "And my bow!", Gimli: "And my
Axe!", Worf: "And MY batlith!!"

- Picard on the slopes of Mt Doom places his com-badge on the gound next to
the One Ring and has Enterprise beam it directly into the Crack of Doom...

Anyone else got any ideas for plot points?

LET THE SACRELIGE BEGIN!!! Sorry - it's late, I'm tired and silly, and JUST
couldn't help myself...

Post by Tim Smith

Post by Graeme
That's silly. Do you know there's an entire newsgroup devoted to Star
Trek vs. Star Wars? That's exactly the same type of comparison. Same
genre, but still comparing multi-million dollar movies to comparatively
cheap TV episodes.

Yeah...which is why Star Wars has much better effects than Star Trek.
However, they didn't seem to put much of those millions of dollars into
writing, because Star Trek (not counting "Enterprise") has come up with
better stories.
I bet if took someone who had never seen Star Wars or Star Trek, and showed
them all the Star Wars movies, in order of release, and showed them all of
Deep Space 9, except for the last 1/4 of the last season, and then gave them
a choice of seeing either Episode III, or seeing the list 1/4 of DS9, but
not both, they would be far more likely to want to finish DS9.
--
--Tim Smith

[Graeme]

Post by me
- Riker and Picard debate the merits of the Prime Directive's role in
whether or not they should intefere in the quest to destroy the ring.

"And I say that the Prime Directive... whatever it happens to mean this week,
is the right way to go."

Except it wouldn't happen, because that's conflict, and conflict is obsolete in
the 24th century, so the major characters aren't allowed to have any serious
disagreements with each other.

[Hasmonean Tazmanian]

Post by me
HEY!!! How about a movie that's a LOTR/ST-TNG crossover? (heeheeheee...)
- Riker and Picard debate the merits of the Prime Directive's role in
whether or not they should intefere in the quest to destroy the ring.
(Picard: "Will, if Sauron succeeds, then it is not just Middle Earth that
will fall, but this entire star system will be under his sway - and he will
not stop there, with the One Ring in his possesion, Sauron could destroy the
Federation, AND the combined might of the Klingon and Romulan empires...")

If this was Star Trek the original series, the Ring would have nullified
their transporters and the shadow blocked their sensors, forcing a
landing party to descend by shuttle and be searching for them through
all the battles etc. that are going on. Like the hobbits, the teams
would be split up and supporting both Rohan and Gondor until they met up
and found the crew. Kirk of course would be with Frodo and Sam,
inspiring them by telling them the ending of the tale, of course.

After the ring was destroyed, all technology would be instantly working
again, allowing them to return home.

Post by me
- Against Picard's direct orders, Dr Crusher beams Frodo up to
sickbay.("Dammit, Jean Luc! I just don't know enough about Hobbit physiology
to be able to save his life using just a medical tricorder down there on the
surface!")
- Guinan: "Did you say Gandalf? Why, yes, he's an old friend of mine..."

LOL.

Post by me
- Lt Cmdr Data in a game of riddles against Gollum.

That would be unbelievably funny. The Golem vs Gollum. (Golem is the
ancient Hebrew term for a robot. dictionary.com: "In Jewish folklore,
an artificially created human supernaturally endowed with life.")

Post by me
- Worf kills the Witch King in the Battle of Pelenor Fields.

Data kills the Witch King: "Technically, I am no man, although my
positronic neural nets make me more than androgynous, and my anatomical
correctness is merely cosmetic..." before Merry interjects "shut up and
shoot."

Post by me
"What does this button do? The one that says 'Matter/Antimatter Intermix'?"
Merry: "Pip, leave things alone...")
- Deanna Troy at the Council of Elrond: "I'm sensing great evil here
Captain..."

Deanna Troy uses her borg de-programming skills to deprogram Gollum from
the effects of the ring, ... but then he gets recorrupted by the
holodeck and begs to be plugged into the Borg collective, as an act of
mercy.

Post by me
- Data calculates the odds of the success of the battle of Helm's Deep to be
"Approximately 7, 360, 437 to 1."
- Handphasers used against the Nazgul.

"Captain! Our sensors cannot lock on to the primitive Birds of Prey.
Maybe they have magic cloaking devices." This leads them to the
conclusion that the Dark Lord Sauron is really a stray renegade Klingon,
with Saruman being the renegade Federation scientist, and Elrond the
immortal a renegade Vulcan.

Post by me
- A scene where the Elves meet the Vulcans.

"Live long and prosper."

Post by me
- The Eye of Sauron taking pot shots at the Enterprise in orbit around
Middle Earth.

Someone figures out how to plug the palantir into the holodeck computer.

Post by me
- Worf to Sam and Frodo: "You *are* small, but your sense of honor is very
great. You are both great warriors - it would honor me to fight beside you."

or better yet: Worf says that to Merry and Pippin.

Post by me
- Aragorn: "You shall have my sword", Legolas: "And my bow!", Gimli: "And my
Axe!", Worf: "And MY batlith!!"
- Picard on the slopes of Mt Doom places his com-badge on the gound next to
the One Ring and has Enterprise beam it directly into the Crack of Doom...
Anyone else got any ideas for plot points?

At the council of Elrond: Picard: "May I propose a new option: we with
our advanced technology can keep the ring safe by giving you a level 1
containment field. The downside: you will have to dig deep to the mines
of Moria to find a stable source of dilithium crystals for the power
supply."



Acting against the Prime Directive, the crew decides that the Middle
Earth apartheid is morally repugnant and decides to save them by beaming
hobbits all over the seas to Valinor. The Valar are slaughtered by
"mistake" because (as Tolkien forgot to write) they are susceptible to
alpha radiation from the Enterprise, but they were too proud to wear the
best alpha ray repellant there ever was: tin foil hats. ;) LOL

[me]

This is just too much fun. I propose taking this to it's own thread so that
EVERYONE can see it and share...

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
HEY!!! How about a movie that's a LOTR/ST-TNG crossover? (heeheeheee...)
- Riker and Picard debate the merits of the Prime Directive's role in
whether or not they should intefere in the quest to destroy the ring.
(Picard: "Will, if Sauron succeeds, then it is not just Middle Earth that
will fall, but this entire star system will be under his sway - and he will
not stop there, with the One Ring in his possesion, Sauron could destroy the
Federation, AND the combined might of the Klingon and Romulan empires...")

If this was Star Trek the original series, the Ring would have nullified
their transporters and the shadow blocked their sensors, forcing a
landing party to descend by shuttle and be searching for them through
all the battles etc. that are going on. Like the hobbits, the teams
would be split up and supporting both Rohan and Gondor until they met up
and found the crew. Kirk of course would be with Frodo and Sam,
inspiring them by telling them the ending of the tale, of course.
After the ring was destroyed, all technology would be instantly working
again, allowing them to return home.

Post by me
- Against Picard's direct orders, Dr Crusher beams Frodo up to
sickbay.("Dammit, Jean Luc! I just don't know enough about Hobbit physiology
to be able to save his life using just a medical tricorder down there on the
surface!")
- Guinan: "Did you say Gandalf? Why, yes, he's an old friend of mine..."

LOL.

Post by me
- Lt Cmdr Data in a game of riddles against Gollum.

That would be unbelievably funny. The Golem vs Gollum. (Golem is the
ancient Hebrew term for a robot. dictionary.com: "In Jewish folklore,
an artificially created human supernaturally endowed with life.")

Post by me
- Worf kills the Witch King in the Battle of Pelenor Fields.

Data kills the Witch King: "Technically, I am no man, although my
positronic neural nets make me more than androgynous, and my anatomical
correctness is merely cosmetic..." before Merry interjects "shut up and
shoot."

Post by me
"What does this button do? The one that says 'Matter/Antimatter Intermix'?"
Merry: "Pip, leave things alone...")
- Deanna Troy at the Council of Elrond: "I'm sensing great evil here
Captain..."

Deanna Troy uses her borg de-programming skills to deprogram Gollum from
the effects of the ring, ... but then he gets recorrupted by the
holodeck and begs to be plugged into the Borg collective, as an act of
mercy.

Post by me
- Data calculates the odds of the success of the battle of Helm's Deep to be
"Approximately 7, 360, 437 to 1."
- Handphasers used against the Nazgul.

"Captain! Our sensors cannot lock on to the primitive Birds of Prey.
Maybe they have magic cloaking devices." This leads them to the
conclusion that the Dark Lord Sauron is really a stray renegade Klingon,
with Saruman being the renegade Federation scientist, and Elrond the
immortal a renegade Vulcan.

Post by me
- A scene where the Elves meet the Vulcans.

"Live long and prosper."

Post by me
- The Eye of Sauron taking pot shots at the Enterprise in orbit around
Middle Earth.

Someone figures out how to plug the palantir into the holodeck computer.

Post by me
- Worf to Sam and Frodo: "You *are* small, but your sense of honor is very
great. You are both great warriors - it would honor me to fight beside you."

or better yet: Worf says that to Merry and Pippin.

Post by me
- Aragorn: "You shall have my sword", Legolas: "And my bow!", Gimli: "And my
Axe!", Worf: "And MY batlith!!"
- Picard on the slopes of Mt Doom places his com-badge on the gound next to
the One Ring and has Enterprise beam it directly into the Crack of Doom...
Anyone else got any ideas for plot points?

At the council of Elrond: Picard: "May I propose a new option: we with
our advanced technology can keep the ring safe by giving you a level 1
containment field. The downside: you will have to dig deep to the mines
of Moria to find a stable source of dilithium crystals for the power
supply."
Acting against the Prime Directive, the crew decides that the Middle
Earth apartheid is morally repugnant and decides to save them by beaming
hobbits all over the seas to Valinor. The Valar are slaughtered by
"mistake" because (as Tolkien forgot to write) they are susceptible to
alpha radiation from the Enterprise, but they were too proud to wear the
best alpha ray repellant there ever was: tin foil hats. ;) LOL

[Hasmonean Tazmanian]

Post by me
This is just too much fun. I propose taking this to it's own thread so that
EVERYONE can see it and share...

Ok....

Post by me

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
HEY!!! How about a movie that's a LOTR/ST-TNG crossover? (heeheeheee...)
- Riker and Picard debate the merits of the Prime Directive's role in
whether or not they should intefere in the quest to destroy the ring.
(Picard: "Will, if Sauron succeeds, then it is not just Middle Earth

that

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
will fall, but this entire star system will be under his sway - and he

will

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
not stop there, with the One Ring in his possesion, Sauron could destroy

the

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
Federation, AND the combined might of the Klingon and Romulan

empires...")

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian
If this was Star Trek the original series, the Ring would have nullified
their transporters and the shadow blocked their sensors, forcing a
landing party to descend by shuttle and be searching for them through
all the battles etc. that are going on. Like the hobbits, the teams
would be split up and supporting both Rohan and Gondor until they met up
and found the crew. Kirk of course would be with Frodo and Sam,
inspiring them by telling them the ending of the tale, of course.
After the ring was destroyed, all technology would be instantly working
again, allowing them to return home.

2 new additions (one more at the bottom):

In a Star Trek, The Next Gen. version of this, ... they get stuck back
in time in Middle Earth, so they have to scout the place looking for
dilithium crystals. A landing party of 13 people descends, plus Data.
They figure the best place to get them from is Mount Doom, but they
start in the Shire to pick up supplies and disguise their landing craft.

Now 13 is an unlucky number, and they need a guide, so Data walks about
Hobbiton looking for one. He sees young Frodo Gamgee, who says
"Goodday" to him. Data pauses,

"what do you mean good day? My positronic neural nets are not familiar
with hobbit figures of speech yet. Do you mean it is a good day, or
that it is good that it is a day, or do you wish to say 'get lost?'"
"All of those things," said Frodo Gamgee.

...etc.


And so on.

Post by me

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
- Against Picard's direct orders, Dr Crusher beams Frodo up to
sickbay.("Dammit, Jean Luc! I just don't know enough about Hobbit

physiology

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
to be able to save his life using just a medical tricorder down there on

the

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
surface!")
- Guinan: "Did you say Gandalf? Why, yes, he's an old friend of

mine..."

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian
LOL.

Post by me
- Lt Cmdr Data in a game of riddles against Gollum.

That would be unbelievably funny. The Golem vs Gollum. (Golem is the
ancient Hebrew term for a robot. dictionary.com: "In Jewish folklore,
an artificially created human supernaturally endowed with life.")

Post by me
- Worf kills the Witch King in the Battle of Pelenor Fields.

Data kills the Witch King: "Technically, I am no man, although my
positronic neural nets make me more than androgynous, and my anatomical
correctness is merely cosmetic..." before Merry interjects "shut up and
shoot."

Post by me
- Geordi gives Merry and Pippin a tour of the engineering section.
"What does this button do? The one that says 'Matter/Antimatter

Intermix'?"

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
Merry: "Pip, leave things alone...")
- Deanna Troy at the Council of Elrond: "I'm sensing great evil here
Captain..."

Deanna Troy uses her borg de-programming skills to deprogram Gollum from
the effects of the ring, ... but then he gets recorrupted by the
holodeck and begs to be plugged into the Borg collective, as an act of
mercy.

Post by me
- Data calculates the odds of the success of the battle of Helm's Deep

to be

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
"Approximately 7, 360, 437 to 1."
- Handphasers used against the Nazgul.

"Captain! Our sensors cannot lock on to the primitive Birds of Prey.
Maybe they have magic cloaking devices." This leads them to the
conclusion that the Dark Lord Sauron is really a stray renegade Klingon,
with Saruman being the renegade Federation scientist, and Elrond the
immortal a renegade Vulcan.

Post by me
- A scene where the Elves meet the Vulcans.

"Live long and prosper."

Post by me
- The Eye of Sauron taking pot shots at the Enterprise in orbit around
Middle Earth.

Someone figures out how to plug the palantir into the holodeck computer.

Post by me
- Worf to Sam and Frodo: "You *are* small, but your sense of honor is

very

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
great. You are both great warriors - it would honor me to fight beside

you."

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian
or better yet: Worf says that to Merry and Pippin.

"And my

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
Axe!", Worf: "And MY batlith!!"
- Picard on the slopes of Mt Doom places his com-badge on the gound next

to

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
the One Ring and has Enterprise beam it directly into the Crack of

Doom...

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
Anyone else got any ideas for plot points?

At the council of Elrond: Picard: "May I propose a new option: we with
our advanced technology can keep the ring safe by giving you a level 1
containment field. The downside: you will have to dig deep to the mines
of Moria to find a stable source of dilithium crystals for the power
supply."
Acting against the Prime Directive, the crew decides that the Middle
Earth apartheid is morally repugnant and decides to save them by beaming
hobbits all over the seas to Valinor. The Valar are slaughtered by
"mistake" because (as Tolkien forgot to write) they are susceptible to
alpha radiation from the Enterprise, but they were too proud to wear the
best alpha ray repellant there ever was: tin foil hats. ;) LOL

2. The Federations sensors locate the Entwives. In a rare departure
from the Prime Directive, they decide that since it would be impossible
for the Ents to cross the great continental divide (since they would die
of thirst before crossing it in the wastes therein) they should help
them reunite. They scout a field in Rohan, and try to deliver the
Entwives over there. But something goes horribly wrong, ... none of the
space cadets ever having seen a real life tree before, realized that
trees have roots that go deep below the ground. The transporter ships
the Entwives there, sans legs (their roots.) Seeing them flopping down
in the plain, dying, Treebeard shouts "this is no time to delay, quick!
Must be hasty!" Each Ent runs around trying to find his own. As the sap
drains from the last Entwife, Treebeard lets out a massive groan, turns
on the landing party waiting nearby with tricorders in hand, monitoring
the Entwives' signs of life. Their last words were recorded by the
Enterprise commlinks and reproduced for posterity in an eloquent yet
long-winded classic called "the Apology", but to Treebeard their
explanation sounded very hasty, something more along the lines of (in
Entish) "super-cala-fragalistic-expealo doh! s***!."

[me]

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
- Worf kills the Witch King in the Battle of Pelenor Fields.

Data kills the Witch King: "Technically, I am no man, although my
positronic neural nets make me more than androgynous, and my anatomical
correctness is merely cosmetic..." before Merry interjects "shut up and
shoot."

Just thought of somehting:
Worf is not a man either: "I am no man! I am KLINGON! I am Worf, Son of
Mawg! And today IS a good day to die!"

[cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges]

Post by me

Post by Hasmonean Tazmanian

Post by me
- Worf kills the Witch King in the Battle of Pelenor Fields.

Data kills the Witch King: "Technically, I am no man, although my
positronic neural nets make me more than androgynous, and my anatomical
correctness is merely cosmetic..." before Merry interjects "shut up and
shoot."

Worf is not a man either: "I am no man! I am KLINGON! I am Worf, Son of
Mawg! And today IS a good day to die!"

do not come between my mount and its prey
or i will not slay thee in turn
but instead take you to houses of lamentation
with your mind naked to trekkies forever

[€€€ Abo €€€]

Christopher raved thus:

:: Romulans, Klingons, etc. Storywise, there is just something more epic
:: about LOTR. It has more depth, more adventure......aspects which
:: existed in Star Trek: The Next Generation, which are now lost in Star
:: Trek: Enterprise.

Well, you'd need to get writers in to do the series, as I don't think
Tolkien is available. So you'd run the same risk as every new show that
comes out; poor writing=poor shows=low ratings=show cancelled.

[Graeme]

Post by €€€ Abo €€€
Well, you'd need to get writers in to do the series, as I don't think
Tolkien is available. So you'd run the same risk as every new show that
comes out; poor writing=poor shows=low ratings=show cancelled.

Enterprise doesn't have to face that reality. At least not like a regular show
does. It's the flagship of UPN, and UPN HAS to have a Trek show on it, however
bad it is. With Enterprise, poor writing + poor shows + low ratings = it stays
on the air. A network show with the same performance wouldn't have finished
its first season.

[Een Wilde Ier]

Post by Christopher
Sorry this isn't off-topic. And this was probably inevitable, if it
wasn't posted before..
But after watching that third LOTR movie, I really think The Lord of
the Rings is a lot more impressive than what Star Trek is now.

ROTFLOL!

[Graeme]

Post by Christopher
But after watching that third LOTR movie, I really think The Lord of
the Rings is a lot more impressive than what Star Trek is now.

No great achievement. Galactica 1980 is better than what Star Trek is now.

Post by Christopher

Star Trek had its day when TOS, TNG, and DS9 were around.......but now it's

dead. Face reality, and move on.
It could come back to life if they hired some actual writers (ones with
previous credits and everything). But yeah, it's dead except in TOS reruns.

Post by Christopher
Where races are concerned, elves, hobbits, wizards, dwarves,
etc......are so much more impressive than Vulcans (boring, zzz)
Romulans, Klingons, etc. Storywise, there is just something more epic
about LOTR.

Well, certainly. Star Trek, even at its best is fast food science fiction.
Yummy fast food when it's done right, but still fast food, full of plots that
are neatly wrapped up in a bow at the end of 51 minutes (or 43 these days).
Lotr, though a fantasy is more like real life, in the sense that things happen
that affect the people in it, and things change in such a way that they could
never be the same again.

Post by Christopher

Now I completely understand why ST: Nemesis failed ---- The Two Towers

destroyed it at the box office! There is no other reason
No, you're wrong there. Two Towers didn't come out until a week later. The
film that beat out Nemesis that first weekend was not Two Towers, it was Maid
in Manhattan.

Losing to Two Towers would have been no disgrace. The very BEST grossing Trek
movie, Star Trek IV, only made 109 million dollars. Nemesis made 43. Even the
awful Star Trek V made 51 (and that was 1989 dollars). Nemesis is the only
Trek movie not to spend a single weekend at #1. And it wasn't Two Towers that
denied it that honour, it was an also-bad Jennifer Lopez Pretty Woman ripoff
movie.

Nemesis wasn't a good movie that got beat by an even better one. It was an
awful movie, and a total financial disaster for Paramount. The day it
premieered, Patrick Stewart was still talking about Star Trek 11. Come Monday
morning, he'd already changed his tune and started talking about what a good
one this was to go out on.

[Mike (ODO)]

Post by Christopher
Sorry this isn't off-topic. And this was probably inevitable, if it
wasn't posted before..
But after watching that third LOTR movie, I really think The Lord of
the Rings is a lot more impressive than what Star Trek is now.

No surprises there. LOTR always had the "weight" of being well-researched
and conceived literature whereas Trek is first and foremost a television
show that is created on a weekly basis. Sometimes it's a movie. Sometimes
it's a book that's fun but sort of disposable.

Whichever one a person *PREFERS* is a matter of personal taste. I love 'em
both, but not equally at any given time. For instance, I can sit down and
watch an episode of, say, DS9 that is completely satisfying in less than an
hour. Gotta invest a larger chunk of time (and possibly attention) to enjoy
a LOTR book or movie. That's not something I want to do every evening or
weekend.

Mike (ODO)

[cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges]

Post by Mike (ODO)
Whichever one a person *PREFERS* is a matter of personal taste. I love 'em
both, but not equally at any given time. For instance, I can sit down and

its an old game

many people who like lotr whine and rant
because the literati doesnt approve of approve of popular fare

so lotr literati proclaim popular fiction can be literature
and then they dump on startrek or starwars or stephen king
and other fction which is too popular to be any good

[David Johnston]

Post by cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

Post by Mike (ODO)
Whichever one a person *PREFERS* is a matter of personal taste. I love 'em
both, but not equally at any given time. For instance, I can sit down and

its an old game
many people who like lotr whine and rant
because the literati doesnt approve of approve of popular fare
so lotr literati proclaim popular fiction can be literature
and then they dump on startrek or starwars or stephen king
and other fction which is too popular to be any good

Excessive popularity is not Enterprise's problem.

[EvilBill]

Post by David Johnston

Post by cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
so lotr literati proclaim popular fiction can be literature
and then they dump on startrek or starwars or stephen king
and other fction which is too popular to be any good

Excessive popularity is not Enterprise's problem.

Nope. Poor writing and characters we don't care about are Enterprise's
problems.
Much the same with Voyager.
--

[Dogger the Filmgoblin]

Post by EvilBill

Post by David Johnston

Post by cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
so lotr literati proclaim popular fiction can be literature
and then they dump on startrek or starwars or stephen king
and other fction which is too popular to be any good

Excessive popularity is not Enterprise's problem.

Nope. Poor writing and characters we don't care about are Enterprise's
problems.
Much the same with Voyager.

I defend Voyager. (So there!)

The only advice I have is to start watching at the end of the third
season. A rule of thumb to separate the wheat from the chaff is, don't
watch any episodes with Kes in them; only watch episodes with Seven of
Nine in them. This is not to say that Seven of Nine is the source of
all quality (this is a big misunderstanding about why some people
think the show got better it has nothing to do with Jeri Ryan's figure
it has to do with the way they raised the stakes and crew became a
real family). 7of9 is just a convenient marker of the moment the
writers became a lot better and the crew became a lot tighter.

I absolutely hated (HATED!) Voyager for the first three seasons, but
starting with the fourth, I was converted. But I still won't watch the
early episodes. Can't stand them. They are like two different shows.
If you haven't already, you might want to give yourself the same
opportunity to reevaluate. Otherwise, you might miss Star Trek
masterpieces episodes like 'Scorpion', 'Year of Hell', 'Nemesis' (no
not the movie), 'Living Witness', 'Drone', 'Counterpoint', 'Bliss',
'Think Tank', 'Equinox', 'Blink of an Eye', 'Good Shepherd' (kind of
like TNG's 'Lower Decks'), 'Unimatrix Zero', 'Inside Man',
'Shattered', 'Repentance', 'The Void', 'Workforce', 'Author Author',
and a lot more great episodes. The Star Trek tradition of combining
great drama with philosophical investigations about the nature of
morality was alive and well in Voyager's seasons 4, 5, 6, and 7.
That's a lot of good watching that it is a shame to miss because of
the show's terrible. Start.

This is why I haven't given up on Enterprise. It's still just the
third season, though admittedly it's really, REALLY bad and it's hard
to see how they could ever rescue it. But then, I thought exactly the
same thing about Voyager.

And oh yeah, LOTR *is* better than Star Trek, way better, taken as a
consistent whole, but there are some single episodes in the Star Trek
body of work that are great as dramatic works of art (including a
couple from Voyager), that I would rather say 'apples and oranges'
than put one above the other.

DB.

[Tom McCafferty]

Post by Christopher
Star Trek had its day when TOS, TNG, and DS9 were around.......but now
it's dead. Face reality, and move on. Now I wish Enterprise could just
die off peacefully, and make more room for better fantasy/sci-fi
shows, like one based in a Tolkien LOTR world.
Where races are concerned, elves, hobbits, wizards, dwarves,
etc......are so much more impressive than Vulcans (boring, zzz)
Romulans, Klingons, etc. Storywise, there is just something more epic
about LOTR. It has more depth, more adventure......aspects which
existed in Star Trek: The Next Generation, which are now lost in Star
Trek: Enterprise.

Since were being silly,
Vulcans and Romulans are elves.
Klingon are orcs.
Ferengi are Hobbits.
Could Sauron beat Q or the Borg even with the ring?

[DanielSBen]

Post by Christopher
Sorry this isn't off-topic. And this was probably inevitable, if it
wasn't posted before..
But after watching that third LOTR movie, I really think The Lord of
the Rings is a lot more impressive than what Star Trek is now.
Star Trek had its day when TOS, TNG, and DS9 were around.......but now
it's dead. Face reality, and move on. Now I wish Enterprise could just
die off peacefully, and make more room for better fantasy/sci-fi
shows, like one based in a Tolkien LOTR world.
Where races are concerned, elves, hobbits, wizards, dwarves,
etc......are so much more impressive than Vulcans (boring, zzz)
Romulans, Klingons, etc. Storywise, there is just something more epic
about LOTR. It has more depth, more adventure......aspects which
existed in Star Trek: The Next Generation, which are now lost in Star
Trek: Enterprise.
Now I completely understand why ST: Nemesis failed ---- The Two Towers
destroyed it at the box office! There is no other reason ---- people
wanted quality, and quality is what they got with LOTR.
Maybe one day Star Trek will make a comeback, but until then,
Tolkien's stories leads the way...

Apples and oranges, I like both quite a bit.

-DanielSBen

[Gemini Jackson]

Post by Christopher
But after watching that third LOTR movie, I really think The Lord of
the Rings is a lot more impressive than what Star Trek is now.
Star Trek had its day when TOS, TNG, and DS9 were around.......but now
it's dead. Face reality, and move on. Now I wish Enterprise could just
die off peacefully, and make more room for better fantasy/sci-fi
shows, like one based in a Tolkien LOTR world.
Where races are concerned, elves, hobbits, wizards, dwarves,
etc......are so much more impressive than Vulcans (boring, zzz)
Romulans, Klingons, etc. Storywise, there is just something more epic
about LOTR. It has more depth, more adventure......aspects which
existed in Star Trek: The Next Generation, which are now lost in Star
Trek: Enterprise.
Now I completely understand why ST: Nemesis failed ---- The Two Towers
destroyed it at the box office! There is no other reason ---- people
wanted quality, and quality is what they got with LOTR.
Maybe one day Star Trek will make a comeback, but until then,
Tolkien's stories leads the way...

Nemesis would have even made a poor episode on tv. I used to really
enjoy ST, but it's an institution now that is only good for revenue to
those involved in the franchise.
~GJ~

[Graeme]

Post by Gemini Jackson
Nemesis would have even made a poor episode on tv. I used to really
enjoy ST, but it's an institution now that is only good for revenue to
those involved in the franchise.
~GJ~

They've run it so far into the ground that it's not even that any more.
Paramount took a big financial bath over Nemesis.

[Roj]

I think you are comparing apples and oranges.

[Bolwerk]

Post by Roj
I think you are comparing apples and oranges.

More like spotted dick and filet mignon.