Would Hitler have liked "The Lord of the Rings"???

[Morambar]

I think yes, "The Lord of the Rings" would have been Adolf Hitler's
favourite book, because the heroes are beautiful, "Aryan" beings
and the bad guys are "sub humans", inferior, ugly orcs.
Hitler would have loved the book!!!

Disagree. The Dwarves were obviously Jewish, the new King is a Southern
European come to rule the North, and the Elves are mostly dark-haired.
The tall blonde representatives of Arian womanhood, Galadriel and Éowyn,
each wind up with a non-Arian mate, Éowyn with the Southern European
Faramir, and Galadriel running off with the Jewish dwarf Gimli. Plus
the heroes of the book are all English!

Think again. Dwarves lived in underground caves and did not interfere
with affairs of the other races. Don't you think Hitler would have been
quite pleased if Jews had just done the same? Galadriel was obviously
not a representative of Aryan womanhood. When offered the ultimate
power, she turned green with disgust. Would an Aryan woman do that??
Aragorn might have been a Swarthy guy from the south-eastern
neighbouring country, who came to restore the Northern Reich in its
former glory, but then again, so was Hitler. Coincidence?

Morambar.

[NY Teacher]

I think yes, "The Lord of the Rings" would have been Adolf Hitler's
favourite book, because the heroes are beautiful, "Aryan" beings
and the bad guys are "sub humans", inferior, ugly orcs.
Hitler would have loved the book!!!

Disagree. The Dwarves were obviously Jewish, the new King is a Southern
European come to rule the North, and the Elves are mostly dark-haired.
The tall blonde representatives of Arian womanhood, Galadriel and Éowyn,
each wind up with a non-Arian mate, Éowyn with the Southern European
Faramir, and Galadriel running off with the Jewish dwarf Gimli. Plus the
heroes of the book are all English!

Think again. Dwarves lived in underground caves and did not interfere with
affairs of the other races. Don't you think Hitler would have been quite
pleased if Jews had just done the same? Galadriel was obviously not a
representative of Aryan womanhood. When offered the ultimate power, she
turned green with disgust. Would an Aryan woman do that?? Aragorn might
have been a Swarthy guy from the south-eastern neighbouring country, who
came to restore the Northern Reich in its former glory,

Aragorn was born in the north, and went to the southern kingdom to restore
its glory.




but then again, so was Hitler. Coincidence?

Morambar.

[Raven]

I think yes, "The Lord of the Rings" would have been Adolf Hitler's
favourite book, because the heroes are beautiful, "Aryan" beings
and the bad guys are "sub humans", inferior, ugly orcs.
Hitler would have loved the book!!!

Disagree. The Dwarves were obviously Jewish, the new King is a Southern
European come to rule the North, and the Elves are mostly dark-haired. The
tall blonde representatives of Arian womanhood, Galadriel and Éowyn, each
wind up with a non-Arian mate, Éowyn with the Southern European Faramir,
and Galadriel running off with the Jewish dwarf Gimli. Plus the heroes of
the book are all English!

He might have loved the Beleriand chapters of the Silmarillion, though.
Melkor, the great and pitiless conqueror of the North --- we know that
certain people actually admire Sauron and orcs. The kind of people who like
to torch churches.

Ramn.

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by Raven
He might have loved the Beleriand chapters of the Silmarillion,
though. Melkor, the great and pitiless conqueror of the North --- we
know that certain people actually admire Sauron and orcs. The kind
of people who like to torch churches.

Not to mention synagogues.

[Sean]

I think yes, "The Lord of the Rings" would have been Adolf Hitler's
favourite book, because the heroes are beautiful, "Aryan" beings
and the bad guys are "sub humans", inferior, ugly orcs.

Hitler liked Wagner's Ring operas, and in fact all Wagner's works;
here's an interesting writeup: http://solomonsmusic.net/WagHit.htm

Although Tolkien made some remark about both Rings being round
and that's all, the resemblance doesn't end there. The theme of both
stories is about corruption and the lust for power.

But would Hitler really have been a _Lord of the Rings_ fan?
_The Hobbit_ came out in 1937 so Hitler could have read it but I think
by that time he was too busy trying to conquer the world to sit around
reading English children's books.

Tolkien's _Ring_ story was first published in 1954, 9 years too late
for Hitler to read. Without attempting a profound analysis I'd guess
that, yeah, Hitler would have liked it. It's a powerful story with both
deep emotional resonance and a connection with Germanic myths;
and people can read into it whatever they want:

"We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are." --Anais Nin

Sean_Q_

[Paul S. Person]

Post by Sean

I think yes, "The Lord of the Rings" would have been Adolf Hitler's
favourite book, because the heroes are beautiful, "Aryan" beings
and the bad guys are "sub humans", inferior, ugly orcs.

Hitler liked Wagner's Ring operas, and in fact all Wagner's works;
here's an interesting writeup: http://solomonsmusic.net/WagHit.htm
Although Tolkien made some remark about both Rings being round
and that's all, the resemblance doesn't end there. The theme of both
stories is about corruption and the lust for power.
But would Hitler really have been a _Lord of the Rings_ fan?
_The Hobbit_ came out in 1937 so Hitler could have read it but I think
by that time he was too busy trying to conquer the world to sit around
reading English children's books.

Was it not the Hobbit that caused the Nazis to inquire about JRRT's
ancestry and attitude toward the Jews? I believe his stronger response
(the one not sent) is in /Letters/.

Post by Sean
Tolkien's _Ring_ story was first published in 1954, 9 years too late
for Hitler to read. Without attempting a profound analysis I'd guess
that, yeah, Hitler would have liked it. It's a powerful story with both
deep emotional resonance and a connection with Germanic myths;

The Hitler who wrote /The Iron Dream/ would have, but he lived in an
alternate reality.

[Odysseus]

In article <***@4ax.com>,
Paul S. Person <***@ix.netscom.com.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Paul S. Person
Was it not the Hobbit that caused the Nazis to inquire about JRRT's
ancestry and attitude toward the Jews? I believe his stronger response
(the one not sent) is in /Letters/.

Not "the Nazis" as such: I think it was more that the Nazi regime
required prospective publishers to make such enquiries. Even if there
was no express directive to do so, it likely would've been a matter of
prudence. The consequences of publishing work by an author who might be
identified as a Jew or 'Jew-lover', or otherwise fall under the
opprobrium of the Party, could be most undesirable.

[Dirk Thierbach]

Post by Odysseus

Post by Paul S. Person
Was it not the Hobbit that caused the Nazis to inquire about JRRT's
ancestry and attitude toward the Jews?

Not "the Nazis" as such: I think it was more that the Nazi regime
required prospective publishers to make such enquiries. Even if there
was no express directive to do so, it likely would've been a matter of
prudence. The consequences of publishing work by an author who might be
identified as a Jew or 'Jew-lover', or otherwise fall under the
opprobrium of the Party, could be most undesirable.

The whole incident is described in letter #30. Actually, it was neither
the "Nazis" (in the narrower sense) who asked Tolkien, nor was the
inquiry about his attitude towards Jews. What happened is that a
German publisher who was negotiating with Allen & Unwin asked about
Tolkien's "arisch" origin. This "Ariernachweis" was (sadly) routine in the
Third Reich. The Wikipedia article

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariernachweis

seems to be accurate enough to provide at least an introduction, the
computer translation

http://www.google.com/translate?langpair=de|en&u=de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariernachweis

is garbled, but should still give the general idea.

Post by Odysseus

Post by Paul S. Person
I believe his stronger response (the one not sent) is in /Letters/.

I'm not sure it as actually the stronger response (though the one
printed makes Tolkiens views about the subject quite clear). The
introduction to letter #30 states that "It is clear that in that
letter Tolkien refused to make any declaration of 'arisch' origin.",
and the version printed *does* contain such a declaration, though in a
form that would probably not have pleased the German publishers:

But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of
Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no
ancestors of that gifted people.

So in that sense, one could take this version as the "stronger" of
both. IIRC, the discussion we had about this some time ago was inconclusive.

Anyway, I suspect the person who started this thread is trolling (the
usual pattern: Unknown name, suddenly shows up and starts a thread
with an emotionally charged subject, doesn't take part in the
following discussion). So I guess he really doesn't want to know if
Hitler would have liked LotR (which isn't really interesting, either:
Hitler is dead, thankfully, so we cannot ask him; and I really don't
want to imagine being him to such a degree that I could speculate about
what he would have liked or not), but instead probably wants to insinuate
that LotR is very similar to Hitler's ideology. As to that, we at
least know what Tolkien thought about it. From letter #45:

Anyway, I have in this War a burning private grudge -- which would
probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that
ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler (for the odd thing about demonic
inspiration and impetus is that it in no way enhances the purely
intellectual stature: it chiefly affects the mere will). Ruining,
perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble
northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever
loved, and tried to present in its true light.

'Nuff said.

- Dirk

[Count Menelvagor]

Post by Morambar
Think again. Dwarves lived in underground caves and did not interfere
with affairs of the other races. Don't you think Hitler would have been
quite pleased if Jews had just done the same? Galadriel was obviously
not a representative of Aryan womanhood. When offered the ultimate
power, she turned green with disgust. Would an Aryan woman do that??
Aragorn might have been a Swarthy guy from the south-eastern
neighbouring country, who came to restore the Northern Reich in its
former glory, but then again, so was Hitler. Coincidence?

that's only if you don't count balrogs OR orcs as "other races." we
were quietly minding our own business, when a bunch of these
interlopers wormed their way into moria and began soiling it. ugh. and
even after we made it screamingly clear we didn't want them, they came
back. we tried being polite, but finally had to take strong measures.

as for hitler, he was a stupid human. even tolkien knew better than
that.

[Flame of the West]

Post by Count Menelvagor
that's only if you don't count balrogs OR orcs as "other races." we
were quietly minding our own business, when a bunch of these
interlopers wormed their way into moria and began soiling it. ugh. and
even after we made it screamingly clear we didn't want them, they came
back. we tried being polite, but finally had to take strong measures.

I hate it when the dwellers of the bottom floor think they own the
entire building. If you'd just stayed in the basement where you
belonged, there'd have been no trouble.


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.

[Tamf Moo]

Flame of the West wrote:

menelvagor> we tried being polite, but finally had to take strong measures.

Post by Flame of the West
I hate it when the dwellers of the bottom floor think they own the
entire building. If you'd just stayed in the basement where you
belonged, there'd have been no trouble.

hello!? who started the trouble by gate-crashing and throwing stones?

[Sean]

Post by Count Menelvagor
as for hitler, he was a stupid human.

You don't conquer Europe by being stupid.

Not many have done it:

Attila
Charlemagne
Napoleon
Hitler

SQ

[Öjevind Lång]

Post by Sean

Post by Count Menelvagor
as for hitler, he was a stupid human.

You don't conquer Europe by being stupid.
Attila
Charlemagne
Napoleon
Hitler

None of them conquered all of Europe. Attila and Charlemagne did not even
come close. Napoleon and Hiler both failed to conquer the British Isles and
Russia.

Öjevind

[Tamf Moo]

[rabt removed from follow-up]

Post by Sean
You don't conquer Europe by being stupid.

then show us empirical (or should that be imperical?) evidence! why does
"EU" not stand for Einsteinian Union, for instance?

Post by Sean
Attila

pretty smart, but his brain was addled by his fondness for horses.

Post by Sean
Charlemagne

an illiterate redneck, so confused about his own name that europeans
remain divided to this day over what to call him.

Post by Sean
Napoleon

totally devoid of a dress sense in hats!

Post by Sean
Hitler

couldn't even get into art school, which as we all know is where you
apply after you've been turned down by all the better places.

all this clearly shows us that eople only conquer europe from lack of
anything better todo.