Post by Stan BrownFri, 05 Jan 2007 01:16:44 -0600 from Larry Swain
<snip>
Post by Stan BrownElwing threw herself into the
sea. But Ulmo saw her and was moved, and he gave her the shape
of a swan, and she flew westward in search of her husband with
the Silmaril bound about her neck.
Did I miss something? My copy says "great white bird" -- I
pictured a tern or something similar, because I don't think swans
fly over sea.
This prompted me to go for a search of Elwing's feathered history ;)
There are, of course, lots of references to swans in connection with
the sea in Tolkien's writings -- Eärendil at one point makes a ship
called 'Swan-wing', and the haven of the Teleri is the Swan-haven
(Alqualondë), their ships the swan-ships (in the early versions), and
Tuor's emblem was a swan-wing (I get the impression that Tolkien
intended it to symbolize also Tuor's sea-longing), so, though I agree
in not considering swans a race of sea-birds (though they are known to
live in salt, or at least brackish, water, but, with the usual
reservations with respect to Wikipedia, it doesn't list swans as
seabirds[*]), it does seem as though Tolkien did use them in connection
to the sea.
[*] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seabird>
That said, I am not sure if it applies to Elwing.
In LT2, V 'The Tale of Eärendel' (sic), outline C mentions that
'Elwing became a seabird', without any mention of species:
Elwing became a seabird. His grief is very great. His
garments and body shine like diamonds and his face is in
silver flame for the grief and ..........
He sets sail with Voronwë and dwells on the Isle of
Seabirds in the northern waters (not far from Falasquil) -
and there hopes that Elwing will return among the
seabirds, but she is seeking him wailing along all the
shores and especially among wreckage.
CJRT comments:
However, with the fate of Elwing B and C seem clearly to
part company: in B there is a simple reference to her
death, apparently associated with the curse of the
Nauglafring, and from the order in which the events are
set down it may be surmised that her death took place on
the journey to Tol Eressëa; C specifically refers to the
sinking of Elwing and the Nauglafring - but says that
Elwing became a seabird, an idea that survived (The
Silmarillion p. 247).
The only reference I have found to a specific race comes also from
LT2, scheme D of 'The Tale of Eärendel', where:
[Eärendel] learns of Elwing's foundering. He sitteth on
the Isle of Seabirds. Elwing as a seamew comes to him. He
sets sail over the margent of the world.
The next development was the 'Sketch of the Mythology', where CJRT
summarizes the developments of §17 thus:
In the old outlines Elwing was taken captive (as is to
be deduced, by Melko); there is no mention of her release
from captivity, and she next appears in references to the
sinking of her ship (on the way to Tol Eressëa) and the
loss of the Nauglafring; after which she becomes a seabird
to seek Eärendel. Eärendel returning from his long voyage
and finding the dwellings at Sirion's mouth sacked, goes
with Voronwë to the ruins of Gondolin, and in an isolated
note (II. 264, xv) he goes even to the empty Halls of
Iron seeking Elwing.
All this has disappeared in S, with the new story of
Elwing casting herself and the Nauglafring into the sea,
except that she still becomes a seabird (thus changed by
Ulmo) and flies to seek Eärendel about all the shores of
the world. The early outlines are then at variance: in C
it is said that Eärendel dwelt on the Isle of Seabirds and
hoped that Elwing would come to him, 'but she is seeking
him wailing along all the shores'yet he will find Elwing
at the Faring Forth, while in the short outline E (II.
260) she came to him as a seamew on the Isle of Seabirds.
But in S Elwing is further mentioned only as being sought
by Eärendel when he sets sail again, until she reappears
at the end (§19) and is restored to Eärendel.
[SM, 'Commentary on the Sketch of the Mythology']
In the 1930s /Quenta Noldorinwa/ the ideas from the sketch are first
repeated:
And yet the sons of Fëanor gained not the Silmaril; for
Elwing cast the Nauglafring into the sea, whence it shall
not return until the End; and she leapt herself into the
waves, and took the form of a white sea-bird, and flew
away lamenting and seeking for Eärendel about all the
shores of the world.
[SM, 'The Quenta' §17 in QI, p. 150]
In the revised QII text appears finally the version we're used to from
the published /Silmarillion/:
But Ulmo bore her up and he gave unto her the likeness
of a great white bird, and upon her breast there shone as
a star the shining Silmaril, as she flew over the water to
seek Eärendel her beloved. And on a time of night Eärendel
at the helm saw her come towards him, [...]. And in the
morn with marvelling eyes he beheld his wife in her own
form beside him with her hair upon his face; and she
slept.
[SM, 'The Quenta' §17 in QII, p. 153]
This is not developed further in the later QS, and this is the
source for the published version.
We can never, of course, know why the specification of 'seamew' and
later of 'seabird' was abandoned -- it wasn't necessarily because
Tolkien wanted her to become of some other species, and in any case
there are a number of mews (or seagulls) to which the description of
'a great white bird' is very apt indeed, but finally there are also
other large, white (or 'white-ish') seabirds -- like albatrosses,
pelicans, terns etc.
Post by Stan BrownMaedhros grew to love the half-elven sons (who were more than
half-elven, but we shan't quibble), and they him, and so the boys grew.
I was going to quibble, but I think you're right.
And adding to that that 'half-elven' received a very specific
meaning that applied specifically to Eärendil and Elwing and their
sons[#], we'd have to be careful about quibbling in any case ;-)
I think also that such terms, referring to someone of mixed descent
(regardless of the ingredients), are usually used imprecisely to
cover all mixes (the precision used in the Nazi designations of
Jewishness was, I believe, an anormality).
[#] I wonder about the further generations. Arwen and her brothers
were, naturally, also half-elven, but what about Elros' line? Wasn't
the term, as it developed[$], applied exclusively to those who
received the choice?
[$] As originally envisioned, the description in /The Hobbit/ seems
apt:
The master of the house was an elf-friend-one of those
people whose fathers came into the strange stories before
the beginning of History, the wars of the evil goblins and
the elves and the first men in the North. In those days of
our tale there were still some people who had both elves
and heroes of the North for ancestors, and Elrond the
master of the house was their chief.
[/The Hobbit/ ch. 3 'A Short Rest']
This does not, IMO, describe one who is counted an Elf -- otherwise the
application of 'elf-friend' would seem pointless. Elrond, in this
description, seems to me to be a Man who counted Elves among his
ancestors. This seems to me also the implication of the text in the
'Sketch of the Mythology':
Their son (Elrond) who is half-mortal and half-elfin,[%]
a child, was saved however by Maidros. When later the
Elves return to the West, bound by his mortal half he
elects to stay on earth. Through him the blood of Húrin[&]
(his great-uncle) and of the Elves is yet among Men, and
is seen yet in valour and in beauty and in poetry.
[%] This sentence was changed to read:
Their son (Elrond) who is part mortal and part
elfin and part of the race of Valar,
[&] Húrin struck out, and Huor and of Beren written above, together
with some illegible words. One might expect Through
him the blood of Huor and of Beren his
great-grandfathers, but the illegible words do not
seem to be these. (Húrin was in fact Elrond's
great-great-uncle.)
[SM, 'Sketch of the Mythology' §17 and commentary]
[...]
Post by Stan BrownElrond and Elros should be referred to as "the 9/16-Elven". :-)
;-)
Or one-sixteenth-Maian
I wonder if they were called 'Peredain' by the Elves?
Post by Stan BrownManwe's herald hailed him and brought him before the Valar.
[...]
Indeed. I think that this particular passage, more than any
description of the ensuing War of Wrath and its aftermath, is /the/
eucatastrophe of the /Quenta Silmarillion/.
Post by Stan BrownThere E. asked forgiveness for the Noldor and for men and begged
the Valar's help in defeating Morgoth and his evil.
E. was careful to ask pardon for the Noldor, but not for Men since
they had not rebelled against the Valar. He ashed fotr mercy and
help for both ELves and Men.
That's a good point:
Pardon he asked for the Noldor and pity for their great
sorrows, and mercy upon Men and Elves and succour in their
need. And his prayer was granted.
Eärendil was already attracted to the side of Men because of Tuor,
and on their behalf he asked for mercy and help (as well as for
/all/ Elves of Middle-earth), but only for the Noldor did he as for
pardon and pity.
Post by Stan BrownThe movement of Vingilot was seen by the people of
Middle-earth as a new star, and they called it Gil-estel
(the Star of High Hope).
Do I remember rightly, that Eärendil is the Morning Star, which we
call Venus?
Yup. That is the underlying assumption already in the 1914 poem `The
Voyage of Éarendel the Evening Star (and is implied also in the
title -- Venus is both the Evening Star and the Morning Star), and
it is stated explicitly that this was Tolkien's intention in letter
#297:
To my mind the A--S uses seem plainly to indicate that it
was a star presaging the dawn (at any rate in English
tradition) : that is what we now call Venus: the
morning-star as it may be seen shining brilliantly in the
dawn, before the actual rising of the Sun. That is at any
rate how I took it. Before 1914 I wrote a 'poem' upon
Earendel who launched his ship like a bright spark from
the havens of the Sun. I adopted him into my mythology
[/Letters/, #297 to 'Mr Rang' (drafts), August 1967]
<snip>
Post by Stan Brown1. At the end of the previous chapter it is indicated that Tuor
and Idril made it to the Blessed Realm. In this chapter it is
indicated that Earendil is the first mortal to set foot there.
If Tuor made it, in spite of having thrown in his lot with the
elves, wouldn't he be the
first?
The last paragraph of the preceding chapter says that he "set sail
into ... the Wsst", not that he reached Valinor. It does say that
"it was sung that" he counted as an Elf, but this could have been
done after he died and his spirit appeared before Mandos.
In the QII version, where this first appears, it is clear that Tuor did
indeed reach Valinor in the conventional way:
In those days Tuor felt old age creep upon him, and ever
a longing for the deeps of the sea grew stronger in his
heart. Wherefore he built a great ship Eärámë, Eagle's
Pinion,[2] and with Idril he set sail into the sunset and
the West, and came no more into any tale or song.[3]
[3] Added here:
But Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder
race, and joined with the Noldoli whom he loved, and in
after time dwelt still, or so it hath been said, [struck
out: in Tol Eressëa] ever upon his ship voyaging the seas
of Fairyland [> the Elven-lands], or resting a while in
the harbours of the Gnomes of Tol Eressëa; and his fate is
sundered from the fate of Men.
[SM, the Quenta §17 in QII]
Post by Stan Brown2. Why do Elrond's children have the choice of kindreds, but
Elros' do not?
The Gift of Men (which is mortality, to die and pass out of the
world) comes from Eru. The Valar are not permitted to take it
away. So once Elros chose to accept the Gift of Men, it belonged
to all his descendants, and the Valar could not take it away even
if a mortal of Elros' race wanted to give it up. On the other
hand, in very limited circumstances, Eru permitted the Valar to
*give* the Gift of Men, and that is how Lúthien, Elrond, and Elros
were allowed to choose. Since Elrond rejected the Gift of Men, he
remained an Elf. His children were born Elves but were allowed to
accept the Gift as a special matter of grace.
I basically agree with what you say, but I don't think that it fully
answers Larry's question. In these terms we might as why the
inheritability of the Gift of Men 'overrides' the inheritability of the
Choice.
In external logic, I suppose it makes some sense, at least -- otherwise
just about everybody these days would have the Choice (since the line
of Lúthien is foretold to never die out). Men are more prolific than
Elves, and with their short generations, the number of Peredhil with a
choice could soon become overwhelming. The Elves, on the other hand,
only got a single generation -- three children of Elrond -- before the
choice was removed as a practical reality (any children Elrond and
Celebrindal might conceive in Valinor would have no inclination to
choose mortality).
in message <news:***@emachine> "William Cloud Hicklin"
<***@mindspring.com> opined:
::: I get the impression that the Gift of Men is a one-way door.
I guess there is little doubt about that part -- the problem, as I
understand it, is rather /why/ the Gift of Men is irrevocable not only
for the person who makes the choice, but for their issue as well.
::: Tolkien never "balances" it with an irrevocable "Gift of the
::: Quendi."
Unless you see their immortality within Arda, and their great artistic
(sub-creative) gifts as that.
::: Of course, from an external perspective, this position was rather
::: forced on Tolkien thanks to Aragorn-Arwen's intrusion into the
::: mythos.
That makes me curious as to the sequence of things here. Surely the
story of Elros and Númenor emerged before the story of Arwen and
Aragorn, so was the first assumption that the parents' choice would
affect their children as well, and the idea of Elrond's children having
a choice only emerging with the story of Aragorn and Arwen? Or is the
sequence completely different?
::: I note that nothing is said anywhere about Dior's status, but
::: his marriage to Nimloth is never pointed out as miscegenation;
::: and it is at least firmly implied that Elwing is immortal.
The status of Dior has been discussed before -- I seem to recall that
some posters held rather strong positions on the matter. The matter of
Elwing could be, and IIRC it was, argued to be a retroactive wording,
the tale being composed after her choice to be counted among the Eldar.
Post by Stan Brown3. Why did Eonwe let Morgil and Maedhros go without pursuit and
so lose the silmarils?
I don't see anything in the chapter that says he *decided* not to
pursue them. Did he actually know what they were doing till after
they had left the camp?
It was certainly a deliberate decision that Eönwë made:
Then all the camp was raised against them, and they
prepared to die, defending themselves until the last. But
Eönwë would not permit the slaying of the sons of Fëanor;
and departing unfought they fled far away.
William's guess is that 'Fionwe was wise enough to foresee the
outcome, and knew the Oath had to play itself out', and I suppose
that that is part of it, but I also suspect that he did not want to
repeat the slaying of Elf by Elf[@], regardless of their sins, there
were people in the host of the Valar who were their kin.
[@] Eönwë's host was composed of Elves, it seems. We learn that the
Vanyar and the remaining Noldor marched 'beneath their white
banners' in the 'host of the Valar', and we also know that none of
the Valar actually marched with their host, but what about the
Maiar? Was Eönwë really the only Maia in the host, or is he merely
the only one we hear about? In the /Quenta Noldorinwa/, 'the sons of
the Valar' prepared for battle, and the Elves went with them,
Post by Stan Brown4. Why are the Valar unable to eradicate Morgoth's evil among
elves and men?
"He that sows lies will not lack of a harvest."
More generally, remember that Morgoth spread his evil nature
through all the stuff of Arda. Every Elf and every Man has
Morgoth's evil in his physical body.
Nicely explaining why sin enter through the flesh ;)
I agree, though, that the /hröa/ of Arda Marred entering into the
/hröa/ of the Children of Eru is largely responsible for the Eruhíni in
Middle-earth being all, to greater or less extent, themselves marred in
the spiritual sense. If the matter of the Blessed Realm is still
Unmarred, and if that is the matter of which the new body is build when
a dead Elf is re-housed, then this Elf would start in an Unmarred body,
which might change things drastically. This might also have
repercussions for our understanding of Glorfindel whom, though he of
course slowly would have contaminated his body, also would have arrived
in Middle-earth Unmarred.
Post by Stan BrownThe Old English poem Christ (Crist) by Cynewulf contains the
line: éala éarendel engla beorhtast / ofer middangeard monnum
sended which means "Hail Earendel, brightest of angels, sent
over Middle-earth to men."
Eönwë's words upon first hailing Eärendil echo this too.
Good catch.
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
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